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[Music]

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what's up guys ryan sprague here and i'm

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just dropping in to remind you about our

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patreon campaign

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consume but it's not free to create

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so if you want to help the show on a

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monthly basis we have tons of rewards

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for you in return including shout outs

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on the show and website

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bonus content and episodes and free

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merch

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want to be my guest or pick a topic for

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the show

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you can do that too so if you'd like to

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learn more and to help support the show

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visit patreon.com summerskies

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thank you and keep looking up

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[Music]

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today on the show award-winning

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investigative reporter

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and best-selling author ross coulthard

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i i asked him about you know was he ever

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read into

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a crash retrieval program you know was

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he ever security briefed

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to be briefed on claims the united

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states has recovered

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alien craft and i fully expected him to

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go like

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come on rust it's just crazy

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you know why why you asking me that

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question and

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there was this kind of pregnant pause

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after i asked the first question

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and i was about to change the subject

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and move on out of embarrassment and

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then he went

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yes but i wasn't read out of it

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and for that reason i can't say much

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more about it

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and i went multiple craft or a single

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craft multiple

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he put me on to a series of colleagues

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of his

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who introduced me to the fact that

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they were aware of the program

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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[Music]

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ross thank you so much for joining me

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today on somewhere in the skies for the

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very first time

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it's a real pleasure yeah i i've been

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waiting a while

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for this one i know you've been a very

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busy man you know with the documentary

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coming out with the book

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coming out very soon as well which we

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will definitely

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dive into both of those first but my

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first question for first time guests

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always and one i know a lot of my

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listeners are going to want to know is

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how did you first get interested in the

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whole ufo thing what

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what sort of compelled you to do the

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most recent work that uh you've been

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doing with the ufo phenomenon

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as a journalist ryan i'm very fascinated

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by taboos

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there's there are a lot of subjects well

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actually there's not a lot there's some

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subjects in journalism that you're told

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as a journalist

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it's culturally unacceptable to go near

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one of them is ufos another is

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global warming science anything that

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questions the science of global warming

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i won't get into that it's too

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controversial

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but um i'm fascinated because as a

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journalist

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there's always been this cognitive

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dissonance between

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what i know is going on in intelligence

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and defense and i have many good sources

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in

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and australia and new zealand and canada

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and i'm aware of a lot of things that go

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on including monitoring of

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anomalous objects um it always

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fascinated me i'd read my history i'm a

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keen historian and i'd read my history

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about how

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project blue book the us air force's

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investigations into ufos had

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ostensibly shut down air force interest

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into the phenomenon back in the late

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1960s

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and it was patently obvious to me that

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that's completely untrue

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i've spoken to people in our defence

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force

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in your military your intelligence

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services your government your congress

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who've told me that there is active

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ongoing monitoring of the phenomenon of

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the anomalies that are seen in

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our skies that there is a concern about

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it

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far beyond what's known to be in the

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arsenal of america

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and indeed of any of your rivals and um

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that cognitive dissonance if you like is

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what's driving my

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interest because uh it's

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it's interesting that that the public

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are being told that this is a subject

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for ridicule

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it's a subject for stigma it's a subject

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for

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dismissiveness you know don't take an

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interest it's rubbish you know it's just

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silly crazy people

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when in fact at a very high level as i

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discovered when i started looking

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it's being taken very seriously indeed i

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mean i've

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spoken to people at a very high level

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most of them on background

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in our intelligence services and defence

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force who tell me that

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there is active monitoring of anomalous

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objects

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both from australia from the us and

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indeed from many of the five ice

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countries all around the world there's

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an active interest being taken

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because it is a genuine mystery and why

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why wouldn't i

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as a journalist be interested in a

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mystery

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it's fascinating i find it absolutely

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fascinating and

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the more i the more i delved the more it

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really struck me as a journo

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why why aren't we looking at this

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subject it's extraordinary because

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um as you and others have been saying

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for

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quite a few years now there is a genuine

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mystery there that is worthy of

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investigation and i

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i think that the turning point for me

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and other journalists was when the

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pentagon

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finally admitted that it could not

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plausibly explain

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with prosaic explanations the

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objects that were caught on video the

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gimbal the tic-tac and the go-fast and

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then all the other objects that have

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been seen since by pilots off the coast

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of virginia and the east coast and the

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west coast of the usa um

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it's obvious to me that there is a

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genuine

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mystery there or at least that's the

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position that your pentagon is taking

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that oh shock horror this is a mystery

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and that i don't know why that's not on

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the front pages of every newspaper that

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the pentagon has formally admitted

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that this is an issue of concern

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and something that deserves to be

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seriously investigated

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absolutely and i mean well you are one

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of the

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you know leading journalists in

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australia and now

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here in the united states who has worked

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with the mainstream media

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to cover this topic in a serious manner

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and you know this wasn't just

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a small article that you had come out

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this was both

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an upcoming book and a documentary so

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i mean i'd love to get an idea of how

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first and foremost how the documentary

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came to be with seven new spotlight um

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an amazing organization i've had the

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honor of working with as well but i will

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tell you ross before i

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i worked with them i was told you know

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be careful

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with the the news in australia because

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they will

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so be ready but i'll tell you this

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that's not my experience with them at

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all so yeah how did the documentary come

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to be if i might ask

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one of the things ryan that does give me

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a real annoyance is

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is in the media in australia anytime

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there is a ufo story or a uap story

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um it is generally introduced by the

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host with a kind of a smirk

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you know we're about a funny story and

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then there's woo-woo music or

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x-files music and generally there's a

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graphic up the back of a flying saucer

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or a bug-eyed green man

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and the public are invited to reach the

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conclusion that this is just a gentle

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piss take that we're

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now at a stage in the news bulletin

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where we're having a bit of fun

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and that's generally how the subject has

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been covered by the media for much of

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the last

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50 years and

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you're right there is there is a

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an issue around a lot of the media um

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one of the programs i used to work for

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was a show called 60 minutes in

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australia which is a

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a sister show of the american 60 minutes

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it at one stage i

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actually read that christopher mellon uh

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the former deputy assistant secretary of

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defense was talking openly about ufos

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and it intrigued me and this was back in

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when he first started talking i think

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back 2015 2016

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and i thought gee that's interesting so

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i i contacted chris

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and he agreed to be interviewed and um

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i used to go with 60 minutes to the

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united states quite a lot

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uh three or four times a year and um i

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i invited him to do an interview with us

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and he agreed and

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and then i can remember the executive

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producer of the program

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pulled the interview at the very last

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minute because they were concerned

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that we were exposing ourselves to

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ridicule

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and stigma if we did this story if we

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took this phenomenon

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seriously and a lot of people think that

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there are sort of dark-faced men in

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black that go around media offices and

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say you shall not run this story and

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that's truly not this

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not the case at all what there is it's a

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much more effective thing

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it's a it's a stigma it's a ridicule

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that's been attached to the phenomenon

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in what i think and interestingly the

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evidence shows this quite compellingly

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there's been a deliberate disinformation

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campaign

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by intelligence services both in my

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country yours the us

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and other countries to try and stop

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people from taking the phenomenon

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seriously

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and it's been phenomenally successful

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through movies

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television shows you've just been

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invited to conclude that

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all stories about ufos flying sources

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lenticular discs and nonsense

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and it's been an incredibly powerful way

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of shutting down the media

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and i saw this happen myself when i was

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working for

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a major newspaper here in australia the

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sydney morning herald i was on the

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desk deciding what stories should be

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allocated to which reporter on a sunday

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and

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from

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00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:39,040
a suburb of western sydney and said she

286
00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:41,839
just got a fantastic photograph of a

287
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:44,399
disc shaped metallic craft that was

288
00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:46,480
hovering over her backyard

289
00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:48,720
and she she sounded i she knew of her

290
00:10:53,269 --> 00:10:50,720
i'd met her through another story and

291
00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:53,279
um i thought well she's a reputable

292
00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:55,120
person she was actually involved with a

293
00:10:58,870 --> 00:10:56,000
refugee

294
00:11:01,110 --> 00:10:58,880
advocacy organization and she told me

295
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:01,120
she had 35 millimeter film

296
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:03,839
camera photographic vision of of this

297
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:05,360
object and so

298
00:11:08,069 --> 00:11:06,720
remember i said to the editor i

299
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:08,079
contacted the editor and i said hey look

300
00:11:12,389 --> 00:11:09,760
we've got a great story out at um

301
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:12,399
parramatta in western sydney can we get

302
00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:15,200
a reporter to go out there and cover it

303
00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:17,519
and it sort of came down stentorian on

304
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:18,399
high you know

305
00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:21,360
we do not do bloody ufo stories rosco

306
00:11:25,030 --> 00:11:22,800
we're a serious newspaper

307
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:25,040
you know flying sources of whack jobs

308
00:11:30,069 --> 00:11:27,200
they're for the tabloid newspapers

309
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:30,079
and that's been pretty much the view all

310
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:31,680
the way through my career

311
00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:34,720
in both television and newspapers

312
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:38,000
and yet periodically i would do stories

313
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:40,160
as an investigative journalist i became

314
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:41,760
a reasonably prominent

315
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:43,279
investigative journalist in australia

316
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:45,279
and i was working for

317
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:48,720
a public broadcaster called the abc

318
00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:50,720
on a show that's very similar to your

319
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:52,240
pbs frontline

320
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,240
which does sort of hour-long

321
00:11:58,230 --> 00:11:56,399
investigative journalism programs and

322
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:58,240
the show i was working for was called

323
00:12:01,509 --> 00:12:00,000
four corners and

324
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:01,519
we had a lot of problems with young

325
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:03,279
pilots from our air force not getting

326
00:12:05,910 --> 00:12:03,680
enough

327
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:05,920
flying hours and they were crashing

328
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:07,839
these beautiful aircraft and

329
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:09,440
killing themselves sadly in horrible

330
00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:10,880
circumstances and

331
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:12,560
it was becoming a scandal that we had

332
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:14,000
such a disproportionate number of

333
00:12:17,509 --> 00:12:16,000
crashes amongst our young pilots and so

334
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:17,519
the air force

335
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,519
opened its doors to us and showed us

336
00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:21,279
what it was trying to do to fix the

337
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:21,839
problem

338
00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:23,680
and i found myself spending a lot of

339
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:25,279
time while we were shooting that story

340
00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:27,360
with very senior wing commanders

341
00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:30,160
and very senior air force brass let's

342
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:31,120
leave it at that

343
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:34,480
and i remember i was taken aside at one

344
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:35,120
stage

345
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:37,120
in the office's mess when we were having

346
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:38,639
a drink at the end of the day is filming

347
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:39,440
at a place called

348
00:12:44,550 --> 00:12:42,560
ref richmond an air base in northwestern

349
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:44,560
sydney

350
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:47,680
and one of the very senior military

351
00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:49,279
brass said to me

352
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:52,639
why don't you chaps do ufos why does

353
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:54,160
nobody ever investigate

354
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:56,560
ufos flying sources there's this weird

355
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:58,639
stuff we see in the skies

356
00:13:01,110 --> 00:13:01,670
and i said look it's simple it's

357
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:04,069
it's rubbish you know you told it you

358
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:05,680
know people have told me for years it's

359
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:06,079
rubbish

360
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,920
you know some of your colleagues have

361
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:09,680
told me it's rubbish

362
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,279
and you go no it's not and uh

363
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:15,680
then it was a weird situation because

364
00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:16,800
journalists and

365
00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:18,399
a lot of listeners may not understand

366
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,000
how this works but journalists

367
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:22,639
have to use off the record or background

368
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:23,360
briefings

369
00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:25,279
as a way of communicating with people in

370
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:27,200
authority sometimes because

371
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:28,800
they don't want to compromise their

372
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:31,279
position by identifying themselves on

373
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:31,760
camera

374
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:33,440
or on television or in a newspaper

375
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:35,200
report and so

376
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:37,279
it frustrates some people sometimes that

377
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:39,600
i can't name these people but

378
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:42,160
suffice to say this was very senior

379
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:43,360
military officers

380
00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:45,600
in our air force and one of them had

381
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:47,440
actually served with your top gun

382
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:51,120
academy and uh they they told me that

383
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:54,480
um that there were anomalous objects

384
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:55,279
being seen

385
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:58,160
all the time in australia and one of

386
00:14:00,629 --> 00:13:59,040
them said to me

387
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,639
go and have a look at our archives you

388
00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:02,480
know go to the um the office of air

389
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:04,639
force intelligence which is

390
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:06,959
the aptly named daffy in our country

391
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:08,399
dafi

392
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,440
and um uh we dug those files up

393
00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:13,199
in fact some great work by some of my

394
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:15,360
colleagues um bill chalker

395
00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:18,399
keith basterfield paul dean uh very well

396
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:18,880
known

397
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:20,959
ufo researchers in australia who've done

398
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:22,880
some phenomenal work digging out files

399
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:24,880
from the australian archives

400
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:27,360
and in those files it shows that our air

401
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:28,399
force has

402
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:30,560
long had an active interest in the

403
00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:31,760
phenomenon of

404
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:34,639
anomalous objects in our skies and that

405
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:37,199
going right back to when the british

406
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:39,360
and this is again what bob hastings goes

407
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:41,040
on about the link between nuclear

408
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:41,600
weapons

409
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:44,399
and whatever these objects are whatever

410
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:45,839
they are they seem to be taking an

411
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:48,320
interest in nuclear weapons because

412
00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:50,880
uh a bit like your nevada test sites for

413
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:53,519
the trinity nuclear weapon in 1945

414
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:56,160
australia when the british wanted to

415
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:57,279
develop their bomb

416
00:15:01,189 --> 00:15:00,160
their nuclear bomb they very kindly let

417
00:15:03,189 --> 00:15:01,199
us use

418
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:03,199
our real estate to let off their bloody

419
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:05,040
nuclear bombs and so there was a site

420
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:06,000
called

421
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:09,600
where they did icbm missile

422
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:12,320
testing and that had massive radar

423
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,399
facilities that monitored these

424
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:16,720
missiles going up into orbit and then

425
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:17,760
coming back down

426
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:20,160
to test the deployment of nuclear

427
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:20,800
weapons

428
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:23,120
for deployment for the british military

429
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:24,399
and there was another site that was

430
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:25,279
within that

431
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:27,600
massive area one of the world's largest

432
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:28,880
test areas called

433
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:32,000
marilinga and uh i've done stories on

434
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:34,000
marilinga before it's like something out

435
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:35,839
of a science fiction movie because there

436
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:37,040
are parts of this

437
00:15:41,269 --> 00:15:38,959
wasteland in south australia that are

438
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,279
still so radioactive you can't

439
00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:43,440
go in there it's got the british did

440
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:45,040
crazy things where they

441
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:46,880
they even experimented with throwing

442
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:48,480
plutonium around

443
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:51,279
in the outback landscape and the

444
00:15:54,629 --> 00:15:52,880
aboriginal people and

445
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:54,639
numerous british servicemen suffered

446
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:57,360
horrific cancers as a result

447
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,759
but during these tests in the 1950s and

448
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,440
the 1960s when i started going through

449
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:03,360
these files as my friends in

450
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:06,160
australia had shown me to do it was

451
00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:06,720
clear

452
00:16:10,629 --> 00:16:10,000
that there was just sighting after

453
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:10,639
sighting

454
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:16,079
intelligence reports and air force

455
00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:17,600
sightings reports

456
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:20,079
which showed that reputable members of

457
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:20,959
the military

458
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:24,639
senior officers civilian observers

459
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:27,920
had witnessed anomalous craft

460
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:31,360
objects hovering over test sites

461
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:33,199
weird lights that sort of ranged from

462
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:34,720
weird lights to

463
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:36,880
in some places lenticular discs that

464
00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:39,040
were clearly intelligently controlled

465
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:40,399
craft flying at

466
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:43,040
tens of thousands of miles an hour

467
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:45,120
identical to the kind of things that

468
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:46,079
have long been

469
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:49,040
seen in and around your los alamos test

470
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:50,240
facility

471
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:53,279
your various test sites at the nevada

472
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:54,720
test range

473
00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:57,839
and it really struck me that this was a

474
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:58,720
history that

475
00:17:03,350 --> 00:17:00,959
whilst it had been reported in in ufo

476
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,360
circles it had largely been ignored

477
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:05,520
by mainstream media because we spend so

478
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,439
much time giggling and titting about

479
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:08,880
ufos we've never

480
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:12,000
looked seriously at the subject and then

481
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:15,199
i was led from that investigation

482
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:18,400
into the archives to more contemporary

483
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:21,439
cases where in the archives there were

484
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:22,880
mentions of a place called

485
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:26,240
north west cape the harold e holt

486
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:29,039
communications station which turns out

487
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:29,520
to be

488
00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:32,400
an absolutely integral part of the

489
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:34,559
american strategic nuclear deterrence

490
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,039
and

491
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:37,440
as far back as the mid-1960s the

492
00:17:41,669 --> 00:17:38,640
americans had

493
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:41,679
polaris nuclear missile armed

494
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:44,080
submarines operating in the indian ocean

495
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,520
and the pacific

496
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,120
and one of the difficulties was getting

497
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:49,120
messages to them in the event of nuclear

498
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,520
war

499
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:51,280
as quickly and as safely as possible

500
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,960
without betraying the position of those

501
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:54,000
subs

502
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:57,120
and so the technology they use is vlf

503
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:59,840
very low frequency and you have to to

504
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:01,840
transmit that vlf you need

505
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:05,200
massive masts hundreds of meters high

506
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:07,919
and so they built this science fiction

507
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,679
looking facility in the middle of

508
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,600
nowhere on the red dirt of the

509
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:13,440
australian outback

510
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:15,919
in a place called northwest cape in

511
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:17,039
probably one of the most

512
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:19,200
westerly northwesterly parts and remote

513
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:20,880
parts of australia

514
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:23,280
and these masts rise hundreds of meters

515
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:25,360
up into the air and they can transmit

516
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:28,880
vlf signals to submarines underwater

517
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:31,200
quite a way underwater

518
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,039
and i've spoken to people who were

519
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:35,200
involved in developing the technology in

520
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:36,320
your country and

521
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:38,799
they've told me that you could only send

522
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,360
to a submarine a very short message

523
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:43,360
which was basically saying come come

524
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:45,039
closer to the surface so we can send you

525
00:18:48,549 --> 00:18:46,640
a more full message

526
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:48,559
and then when they were deploying their

527
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:50,720
communications boy or bowie as you guys

528
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:52,000
call them they would

529
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:53,840
then receive a more full message with

530
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:55,919
the codes for the authorizations for the

531
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:58,000
launch of nuclear weapons

532
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,160
and what fascinated me is somebody who's

533
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:02,720
long taking an interest in

534
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:05,440
australia's role in the cold war you

535
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:07,600
know we've always been used by america

536
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:09,919
and britain as kind of like a silent

537
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:12,000
partner in the five eyes alliance

538
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:15,440
often doing plausibly deniable work

539
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:17,840
but what fascinated me was that the

540
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:19,600
political debate at the time about

541
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:21,679
this particular base was negligible you

542
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:23,200
know we were under a

543
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:24,880
very conservative government at the time

544
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,720
in the mid 1960s

545
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:28,320
and the public weren't told that what

546
00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:30,080
this base was all about was the

547
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:31,840
deployment of

548
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:34,559
nuclear weapons and the event of war and

549
00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:36,080
then

550
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:37,760
when i started going through the

551
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:40,000
archives my friend keith basterfield and

552
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:43,520
bill chalker had pointed me to this

553
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:45,679
there was one particular sighting

554
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:47,679
incident which really caught my eye

555
00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:50,080
which was recorded in air force files

556
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:50,840
that

557
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:53,919
interestingly were no longer to be found

558
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:56,720
in the air force files but before the

559
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:57,600
formation

560
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:01,600
laws they had

561
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,159
legally been passed by the air force

562
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:06,240
public relations office to

563
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,440
a ufo group and found their way to

564
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:11,280
bill chalker who's a very well-known and

565
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:13,120
very well-respected ufo

566
00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:16,640
researcher and these documents showed

567
00:20:20,669 --> 00:20:19,760
that during the arab israeli war in

568
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:20,679
october

569
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:24,559
1973 there was a moment when henry

570
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:27,280
kissinger the secretary of state

571
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:29,600
at late at night in the white house has

572
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:30,960
had a conversation

573
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:33,360
with the soviet premier and he realizes

574
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:35,280
that we're on the brink of

575
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:37,280
the soviets deciding to deploy their

576
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:39,360
troops into the middle east to support

577
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:40,480
their ally

578
00:20:44,789 --> 00:20:42,960
syria and kissinger has done his level

579
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:44,799
best to try to discourage the soviet

580
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:45,520
premier for

581
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:47,600
from doing that but he's worried that

582
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:48,880
there's a risk that this could

583
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:50,720
escalate because if soviet troops go

584
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:52,240
into the middle east

585
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:54,799
there's almost a horrible certainty that

586
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:56,799
this could escalate into a full-fledged

587
00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:58,640
nuclear exchange between the soviet

588
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:00,559
union and the usa

589
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:03,760
and so he ordered a an escalation

590
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:06,159
in the level of preparedness from the

591
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:08,159
peacetime level of defcon

592
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:12,080
4 to the highest peacetime level of def

593
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:15,600
con 3 and that instigated a whole lot of

594
00:21:18,230 --> 00:21:16,080
military

595
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:18,240
movements and deployment of craft in and

596
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:19,440
around the world as

597
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:21,919
essentially the preparation for nuclear

598
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,520
war

599
00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:25,679
and of course instrumental in that was

600
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:26,559
this base

601
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:29,760
the um excuse me for a moment oh yeah of

602
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:30,159
course

603
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:33,840
that was this

604
00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:36,960
base the northwest case cape base where

605
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:39,280
um signals would be deployed to the

606
00:21:44,710 --> 00:21:41,840
submarines in the event of conflict

607
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:44,720
and within a few hours of henry

608
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:46,799
kissinger giving that order to go to

609
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:47,840
defcon 3

610
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:50,720
in the white house the deputy commander

611
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:52,720
of the base a guy called lieutenant

612
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:53,520
commander

613
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:55,760
moya or maya we can't be sure from the

614
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:56,640
way it's written

615
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,390
he wrote a sightings report which

616
00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:04,880
observed that there was a

617
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:08,320
charcoaly black craft sphere

618
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:12,000
seen hovering over or near the base

619
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:15,039
just before dusk and

620
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,159
it was also corroborated and drawn by

621
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:20,559
bill lynn who was a local fire chief who

622
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:22,159
was working for the americans at the

623
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:22,640
base

624
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:25,280
and he sat down and pulled out his pad

625
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:27,280
and drew a picture of it which was also

626
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:29,520
in the sightings report files and it

627
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:31,520
it basically shows a kind of a chubby

628
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:32,559
flying saucer

629
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,480
a kind of a sphere with a ring around

630
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:36,159
the side of it

631
00:22:39,510 --> 00:22:38,640
and then as if that incident wasn't

632
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:39,520
enough um

633
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:42,720
i uh the this part of australia by the

634
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:43,919
way it's just

635
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:46,159
god's own country it's beautiful it's um

636
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:47,840
very remote but

637
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:50,080
it has a place called the ningaloo whale

638
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:50,880
shark

639
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:52,799
experience the reef and you can

640
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:54,480
literally i've done it once and it's

641
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:54,799
just

642
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:56,880
awe-inspiring you can go out on a boat

643
00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:58,799
and you can swim with these magnificent

644
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:01,120
huge whale shark creatures that are

645
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:03,280
quite harmless and you're in this

646
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:04,880
gorgeous tropical ocean

647
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:07,120
full of teeming with fish and these

648
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:10,400
gigantic creatures the side of a house

649
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:12,320
you can swim reasonably close to them

650
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:14,080
and just have this awesome experience

651
00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:15,360
with nature and

652
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:17,200
there's something about this part of the

653
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:18,880
world it is so remote

654
00:23:22,310 --> 00:23:20,960
so far from nowhere and i think a lot of

655
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:22,320
the americans couldn't believe their

656
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:25,360
luck i've spoken to a lot of people who

657
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:27,760
were deployed for the harold holt base

658
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:28,960
with america

659
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:32,080
during the 1960s and the 1970s and um

660
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:33,440
they've told me that it was one of the

661
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:35,120
funnest experiences of their lives

662
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:36,400
because they were paid

663
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:38,080
they were paid good money because it was

664
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:40,000
supposedly a hardship deployment but

665
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:41,679
they they found themselves literally in

666
00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:42,880
a tropical beach

667
00:23:47,269 --> 00:23:45,360
teeming with fish beautiful aussie girls

668
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:47,279
and they couldn't believe their luck

669
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:50,400
and um anyway uh what we discovered

670
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:52,400
when i went up there i went up there for

671
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:53,440
another story

672
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:56,720
uh for 60 minutes and um i

673
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,320
then went up on another occasion and the

674
00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:00,480
locals slowly got to know me and they

675
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,240
knew that i was this kind of weird ufo

676
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:04,400
guy who was asking questions about this

677
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:07,760
october 1973 incident

678
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:10,640
and on one of my visits it's quite late

679
00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:11,600
at night and i

680
00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:13,279
had my computer out on my desk in front

681
00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:15,039
of me and they walked up to me this guy

682
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:17,440
in a big yellow hive his vest said to me

683
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:18,240
uh

684
00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:20,400
are you that journo that's interested in

685
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:21,440
the uf eyes

686
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:24,320
and i went no i was thinking i was gonna

687
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:25,600
get whacked you know it was that sort of

688
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:27,440
australian uh back pub

689
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:30,400
and i went yeah and he went good because

690
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:31,600
we've all seen them

691
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:33,919
and then he sort of turned and pointed

692
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:34,720
to this

693
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:36,640
bunch of guys that were sort of looking

694
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:38,400
from another table over at me and i went

695
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:40,000
and sat down with them and they were all

696
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:43,679
road workers from um a local eczema

697
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:45,520
uh that's the local town nearby the

698
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:47,840
local ecsmith road gang

699
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:49,919
and just it all came up and i was amazed

700
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:51,360
i just kept on buying them beers and

701
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:53,360
they told me these amazing stories about

702
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:55,360
these anomalous objects that they'd seen

703
00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:56,400
and

704
00:25:02,950 --> 00:24:59,760
i then found a guy called adrian arnold

705
00:25:06,549 --> 00:25:02,960
who was in an outdoor

706
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:06,559
cinema in exmouth either on the exact

707
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:09,679
night or around the time when the

708
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:11,760
1973 sighting had occurred and he was a

709
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:13,520
young boy with his mates at an outdoor

710
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:14,559
cinema and he

711
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:17,200
he'd seen similar objects maneuvering in

712
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:19,440
the skies just doing incredible things

713
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,919
coming from what he thought was orbit

714
00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:23,760
screaming down towards the ocean and

715
00:25:27,269 --> 00:25:26,000
then stopping and then turning on a dime

716
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:27,279
and you know there were funny things

717
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:29,440
going on around the base

718
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:31,440
and then locals started telling me all

719
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:32,480
manner of

720
00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:33,919
sightings you know and numerous i've

721
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:35,840
lost can't have the number i've had some

722
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:37,840
as recently as an hour ago from people

723
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:38,400
up that way

724
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:41,279
telling me incredible stuff and um let's

725
00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:43,039
just say that

726
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:46,559
the stuff going up at northwest cape

727
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:46,880
that

728
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:49,200
bears an uncanny resemblance to what

729
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:51,120
people like george knapp and

730
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:53,200
jeremy corbell have described going on

731
00:25:58,870 --> 00:25:54,880
at skinwalker ranch

732
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:58,880
it is a very anomalous location and

733
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:01,120
i've been blown away in the last few

734
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:03,360
weeks by the volume of inquiries and

735
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:04,640
messages

736
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,279
that i've had from listeners and viewers

737
00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:09,360
who saw my documentary who are aware of

738
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:10,159
my book and

739
00:26:13,269 --> 00:26:11,919
have seen some of the pre-publicity that

740
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:13,279
i've been doing and who are really

741
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,400
wanting to engage

742
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:16,960
to tell me what they've seen and a lot

743
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:19,120
of them have seen

744
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:22,799
at one stage right up in a few years

745
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:24,720
prior to the americans

746
00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:26,240
pulling out of the base in the early

747
00:26:32,789 --> 00:26:29,279
1990s a lot of them saw this black

748
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:32,799
triangular craft and one of them was a

749
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:34,000
woman called annie

750
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,600
who i put into my documentary and she

751
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:39,440
she very kindly agreed to be interviewed

752
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:41,440
on camera and she's spoken

753
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:45,440
at length in my book and she told me how

754
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:48,640
uh she was a bit sweet on um

755
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,400
an american guy at the base he was a

756
00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:52,080
young officer and

757
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:54,880
the americans were slowly pulling out of

758
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:56,480
exmouth because the

759
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:59,760
incoming labor government was concerned

760
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:00,400
that

761
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:02,799
australia was a nuclear target in the

762
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:04,799
event of nuclear war and so they gently

763
00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:06,000
encouraged the americans

764
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:08,960
to let them take over the base and that

765
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:11,279
was agreed by america and so

766
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,080
the um the base was essentially resumed

767
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:17,279
between 1991 1992 by australia and it

768
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:18,480
still operates

769
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:22,000
as a communications facility um uh

770
00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:23,760
and the americans still have a

771
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:26,960
considerable hand there i'm told but um

772
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:29,039
uh because the americans were slowly

773
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:30,480
pulling out there were a lot of parties

774
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:32,559
and farewells and so annie was invited

775
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:34,480
to a party at the base

776
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:38,000
uh in 1991

777
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:40,559
and she walks out after a lovely evening

778
00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:41,679
at around about

779
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:45,039
2 30 in the morning and then

780
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:46,799
she realizes there's no cabs left

781
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:48,320
there's only one or two cabs in this

782
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,520
little country town

783
00:27:53,269 --> 00:27:51,440
and nobody's leaving the base at the

784
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:53,279
time so she thinks oh crikey i'm gonna

785
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:54,640
have to walk

786
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:57,440
and then mercifully the two australian

787
00:28:01,590 --> 00:27:59,360
security policemen who were responsible

788
00:28:02,549 --> 00:28:01,600
for keeping the base secure that time of

789
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:02,559
night

790
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:05,279
came out in their four-wheel drive truck

791
00:28:07,029 --> 00:28:06,640
and they said i will give you a lift

792
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:07,039
glove

793
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,640
uh just you know give us half an hour

794
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:10,480
and we'll um we'll quickly do our

795
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:11,840
checks and then we'll give you a lift

796
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:14,399
into turn so around about three o'clock

797
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:15,760
in the morning

798
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:19,520
late on a crystal clear night in this

799
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:22,240
part of australia called northwest cape

800
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,559
and

801
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:24,480
just to give you a picture it's just

802
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:26,960
completely empty it's deserted

803
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:30,000
coastal roads there's very few people up

804
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:32,320
there it's a very quiet country town

805
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:34,000
that they're headed towards five or six

806
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:35,840
kilometers down the road

807
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,760
and they're leaving this gigantic

808
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:40,080
american communications facility

809
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:41,919
and it slowly disappears into the

810
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:43,279
distance

811
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:44,880
and not long after they've driven down

812
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:46,960
the road a bit all of a sudden

813
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:48,799
like something out of close encounters

814
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:50,640
or something there's this illumination

815
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:52,080
on the road in front of them as they're

816
00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:53,440
driving along at 100

817
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:56,960
kilometers an hour and

818
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:58,720
the first reaction of the two men that

819
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:01,440
annie's with is it's back

820
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:02,960
and she goes what what's back and they

821
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:04,640
just ignore her and they reach behind

822
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:05,760
her and grab

823
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:07,840
a 35 millimeter camera that they had

824
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:09,760
ready because apparently they'd seen

825
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:12,960
the same object the previous night and

826
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:14,480
she still can't see what they're seeing

827
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:16,159
but one of them is shooting through the

828
00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:17,039
windscreen

829
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:19,520
at this object that's just hovering

830
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:21,039
clearly just above them

831
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:23,120
and she thinks it's a helicopter and she

832
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:24,480
goes what is it what is it

833
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:26,880
one of them grabs her pushes her forward

834
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:28,320
and she looks up through the windscreen

835
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:29,919
and she screams because

836
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:32,960
it's this gigantic black

837
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:35,840
triangular craft which has kind of like

838
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:36,320
the

839
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:40,880
end of it slightly cut off and um

840
00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:43,039
she just completely freaks because while

841
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:43,919
she's watching

842
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:47,039
the craft jumps it doesn't move it just

843
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:49,279
jumps in an instant it's at a thousand

844
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:50,240
feet

845
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:52,799
and then it drops to the left-hand side

846
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:54,000
of the car

847
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:56,559
and it's literally skirting above the

848
00:30:02,630 --> 00:29:59,279
shrubs the bushes beside the road

849
00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:02,640
and it's keeping pace with them and

850
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:06,559
she can see that it's a lenticular craft

851
00:30:12,389 --> 00:30:09,600
the triangular shape uh uh

852
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,399
had lights underneath it and then on the

853
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:14,240
the side she can see it's clearly some

854
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:15,600
kind of look like metallic

855
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:18,240
construction she doesn't see any doors

856
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:20,080
or windows but basically it's keeping

857
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:21,279
track of them and

858
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,600
she's completely freaked out by this

859
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:25,679
because she realizes by its movements

860
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:27,840
it's intelligently controlled

861
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:30,159
and then as she watches it does it again

862
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:32,159
and it just instantaneously goes to a

863
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:33,039
thousand feet

864
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:34,799
yet again and then drops down to the

865
00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:36,720
other side of the car and it's like

866
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:38,320
it's like frankly somebody's having a

867
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,039
bit of a lend with them and they're um

868
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:43,200
they're watching as this object is

869
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:44,880
screaming along through the outback of

870
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,640
the australian landscape

871
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:48,640
sort of coming up as trees come and then

872
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:49,840
coming down again and it's it's

873
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:52,000
essentially almost playing with them

874
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:54,159
and she by this stage is absolutely

875
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:55,760
terrified because she thinks

876
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:58,000
it's an alien spacecraft that's come to

877
00:31:03,509 --> 00:31:00,000
take them away or something

878
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:03,519
and uh i've confirmed a large part of

879
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:04,880
what i'm about to tell you

880
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:08,080
with multiple sources and i can't tell

881
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:08,399
you

882
00:31:12,789 --> 00:31:10,159
who they are or what i know but

883
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:12,799
basically i'm very happy that annie is

884
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:19,110
she pleads with them to drop her off

885
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,640
on the edge of town on the edge of this

886
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:22,559
little town called xsmith and that's

887
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:23,440
what they do

888
00:31:27,909 --> 00:31:26,159
but the two coppers basically scream

889
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:27,919
back they drop her off

890
00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:29,519
and scream back up the road because

891
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:30,799
they've gone back they've seen it

892
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:31,360
landing

893
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:32,720
and they want to go and get a photograph

894
00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:34,720
of it meanwhile annie is

895
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:37,360
so terrified she runs home two

896
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:38,960
kilometers through the town of ecksmith

897
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:40,799
to the other side of xmith

898
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:42,480
locks her door and she actually forgets

899
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:44,080
about it for two days which is kind of

900
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:45,039
weird but she

901
00:31:48,870 --> 00:31:47,840
she forgot about it for two days and

902
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:48,880
then

903
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:50,799
her mum remembers this well as well

904
00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:53,440
basically two days or three days later

905
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:56,960
these two american military policemen

906
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:59,279
who by the way had no jurisdiction in

907
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,000
this australian

908
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:02,720
town they turn up in her workplace and

909
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:04,480
they they'd come to her mum's house

910
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,840
first and she'd said i'll go to my

911
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:07,279
daughter's work and some of her work

912
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:09,760
colleagues remember her

913
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:11,440
being greeted by these guys as well and

914
00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:13,440
they ask her to go with them

915
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:16,880
to the base and she thinks she's got her

916
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:17,840
friends in trouble

917
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:21,039
base because they've clearly had a bit

918
00:32:23,669 --> 00:32:22,240
of fun the night before

919
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:23,679
that night when they were having a bit

920
00:32:26,710 --> 00:32:25,200
of a party and she thinks oh god i

921
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:26,720
better go and stand up for them and

922
00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:27,840
speak for them otherwise they're going

923
00:32:30,789 --> 00:32:29,039
to get into trouble

924
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:30,799
so she goes with them it doesn't cross

925
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:32,720
her mind oddly that

926
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:34,799
what they've come to talk to her about

927
00:32:40,549 --> 00:32:37,440
is this is this anomalous object

928
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:40,559
and so they drive her in a car and she

929
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:41,440
slowly

930
00:32:45,269 --> 00:32:43,360
begins to realize as she cracks jokes

931
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:45,279
that these guys are deadly serious you

932
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:46,480
know

933
00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:48,159
she's saying things like oh i must be in

934
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:49,919
big trouble you know i must be really

935
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:51,279
important because they've

936
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,799
sat her in the back seat of a car and

937
00:32:55,830 --> 00:32:54,240
they're not saying anything to her as

938
00:32:57,830 --> 00:32:55,840
they're driving along the five or six

939
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:57,840
kilometers to the base

940
00:33:01,830 --> 00:32:59,840
and then as they arrive at the base she

941
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:01,840
knows where the top secret area is the

942
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:04,000
really really sensitive top secret area

943
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:05,039
where all the

944
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:06,720
communications are sent from and she

945
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:08,399
realizes oh my goodness we're driving

946
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,080
into this part of the base that i know

947
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:12,880
is the most super secret part and nobody

948
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:15,039
stops them nobody asks for id and she's

949
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:17,919
waved right in and she's taken to this

950
00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:20,880
building that she knows and ushered down

951
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:21,760
a corridor

952
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:23,840
and into a room where there's a large

953
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:26,720
number of military brass

954
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:29,600
most of whom she doesn't know and that's

955
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:30,399
significant

956
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:33,360
because she knows as a girl who's grown

957
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:34,799
up in exmouth she knows all the

958
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:35,519
americans

959
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:37,600
in town it's a very close knit little

960
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:38,640
community they all

961
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:40,240
date each other they're you know they're

962
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:42,080
all going to school with each other

963
00:33:45,669 --> 00:33:43,919
she described how she'd swear allegiance

964
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:45,679
to the american flag in the morning and

965
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,960
um

966
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,240
it's because most of the schools were

967
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:50,320
american schools and um

968
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:52,399
it was this weird base in the middle of

969
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:53,840
nowhere in australia that was actually

970
00:33:57,029 --> 00:33:55,679
very physically isolated from the rest

971
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:57,039
of australia

972
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:58,960
so she knew all the americans and she

973
00:34:01,590 --> 00:34:00,880
realized that whoever these people were

974
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:01,600
they'd come

975
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:04,799
a long way probably from overseas for

976
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:05,200
this

977
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:08,879
moment to hear what she had to say and

978
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:11,679
she sat down between she what she

979
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:13,280
realizes now are the two

980
00:34:17,349 --> 00:34:16,399
australian policemen who had driven her

981
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:17,359
that night

982
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:20,159
and they're sitting there hang dog flat

983
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:21,280
not saying anything

984
00:34:24,470 --> 00:34:22,399
look they look like they've been there

985
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:24,480
for ages and they're

986
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:27,520
looking scared apprehensive and she sat

987
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:29,280
down between them but she's a civilian

988
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:30,879
she they can't do anything to her she's

989
00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:33,599
an australian civilian and she's also

990
00:34:36,629 --> 00:34:35,919
dare won't say she's an assertive strong

991
00:34:39,349 --> 00:34:36,639
australian

992
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:39,359
woman who doesn't put up with bs and

993
00:34:43,430 --> 00:34:41,359
they immediately ask her what it was she

994
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:43,440
saw and she says i saw a ufo

995
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:45,440
and they asked her what she means she

996
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,720
describes what she saw

997
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,480
as some kind of craft some kind of

998
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:50,399
intelligently controlled object that did

999
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:52,000
these maneuvers that i've described to

1000
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:53,280
you

1001
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:54,960
and then they try and tell her that what

1002
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:56,720
she saw was

1003
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:59,040
a weather balloon and she just scoffs at

1004
00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:00,400
that because

1005
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:02,880
she's actually a member of a um a family

1006
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:05,520
that did the bureau of meteorology's

1007
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:08,160
weather balloon launches so she's she's

1008
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:09,760
launched weather balloons personally and

1009
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:10,560
her father

1010
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:12,079
periodically launched weather balloons

1011
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:13,599
for the local bureau

1012
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:15,599
and filed weather reports so she knew

1013
00:35:19,349 --> 00:35:16,880
full well what

1014
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:19,359
weather balloons look like and as she

1015
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:20,560
admitted to me

1016
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:24,800
previously she'd seen a gigantic

1017
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:27,040
black triangular object over her

1018
00:35:30,150 --> 00:35:28,000
farmer's farm

1019
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,160
over her father's station she'd seen

1020
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:32,240
objects before

1021
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:35,440
and uh so she wasn't surprised

1022
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:38,000
that she'd seen this object that night

1023
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,599
that was the really interesting thing

1024
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:41,280
that slowly came out as we had this

1025
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:42,880
conversation

1026
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:45,280
and the the interesting thing was they

1027
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,359
tried to bully her

1028
00:35:51,829 --> 00:35:49,920
into shutting up about what she saw and

1029
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:51,839
just saying it was a weather balloon

1030
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:55,760
and that's why i have a suspicion

1031
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:58,160
i mean this is 1991 and this is just a

1032
00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:59,839
hunch on my part and i'm throwing it out

1033
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,000
there for people to have a think about

1034
00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:04,160
george knapp's done his excellent work

1035
00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:05,680
with lazar

1036
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:08,640
and exposing area 51 and talking about

1037
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:09,440
alleged

1038
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:12,240
experimental programs involving highly

1039
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:15,280
sophisticated craft at area 51 and

1040
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:17,119
every man and his dog has now got a

1041
00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:18,800
camera sitting at the end of the runway

1042
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:19,839
or on some hill

1043
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:22,960
as far as as close as possible to the

1044
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:25,280
area 51 test range

1045
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:27,040
and if i was the us air force and

1046
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:28,480
hypothetically if i was

1047
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:30,640
testing some kind of new propulsion

1048
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:32,560
system or some kind of new technology

1049
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:33,359
which we all

1050
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:36,720
suspect they were and are

1051
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:38,320
i'd be really worried that whatever it

1052
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:40,240
is i'm doing is being compromised

1053
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:42,560
by the growing public attentiveness

1054
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:43,280
towards

1055
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:46,079
the now compromised area 51 test range

1056
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:48,400
so what would you do

1057
00:36:53,109 --> 00:36:51,280
and i have a hunch and this isn't just

1058
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:53,119
based on this incidence it's also based

1059
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:54,800
on conversations i've had with people in

1060
00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:57,119
australia i know for example

1061
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:00,400
we've been testing hypersonic technology

1062
00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:03,280
with the americans for quite some years

1063
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:04,000
now

1064
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:06,000
where hypersonic drones are deployed

1065
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:07,520
from the us and flown

1066
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:09,280
towards australia and australian

1067
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:10,800
scientists have been collaborating with

1068
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:12,880
them in that regard

1069
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,160
we have a vast empty continent in

1070
00:37:21,430 --> 00:37:18,079
australia that is perfect for the

1071
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:21,440
testing of vehicles and craft and

1072
00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:22,640
devices the

1073
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:24,000
the british did the same with their

1074
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:26,160
nuclear weapons testing in the 1950s and

1075
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:27,520
the 1960s

1076
00:37:31,270 --> 00:37:29,359
so i don't think it's entirely out the

1077
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:31,280
realm of probability that the

1078
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:33,280
americans were testing some kind of

1079
00:37:37,829 --> 00:37:35,520
technology in northwest cape

1080
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:37,839
in that late 80s early 90s period

1081
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:38,800
because

1082
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:41,599
i've now spoken to multiple witnesses

1083
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:43,440
who've told me that they've seen

1084
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:46,480
lenticular craft either disc shaped or

1085
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:48,640
triangular shaped that were

1086
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:51,359
clearly intelligently controlled

1087
00:37:54,950 --> 00:37:53,359
operating in and around the northwest

1088
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:54,960
cape area notably

1089
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:58,000
over the base the harold holt base or in

1090
00:38:00,550 --> 00:38:00,079
particular over the raft lieumont the

1091
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:00,560
local

1092
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:04,400
gigantic runway air base that's located

1093
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:07,119
nearby on north west cape

1094
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:10,000
and um if you were to look for a remote

1095
00:38:13,750 --> 00:38:11,839
part of the world you wouldn't find a

1096
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:13,760
more remote part of the world

1097
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,160
in this area where there's just

1098
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:18,400
thousands of square kilometers of empty

1099
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:19,520
landscape and

1100
00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:22,400
ocean that's why we can't find mh370

1101
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:23,440
because

1102
00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:26,079
there's also the uh the diego garcia

1103
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,040
base that the

1104
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:29,440
british took over as a principality in

1105
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:30,720
the middle of the indian ocean

1106
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:34,160
and then further north there's guam and

1107
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:36,000
so i'm just hypothesizing i'm just

1108
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:37,280
throwing it out there for people to

1109
00:38:39,589 --> 00:38:37,920
think about

1110
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:39,599
is it possible that australia was

1111
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:41,440
testing some kind of technology in

1112
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:43,280
collaboration with the americans or were

1113
00:38:47,190 --> 00:38:45,359
the americans doing it in secret

1114
00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:47,200
because the evidence suggests to me very

1115
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:49,119
strongly that the americans

1116
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:51,359
were aware of whatever this technology

1117
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:52,160
was

1118
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:54,720
they weren't surprised by it their

1119
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:56,960
motivation was to shut it down

1120
00:39:00,150 --> 00:38:59,200
and to try and stop public awareness of

1121
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:00,160
it

1122
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:03,040
and so i'm i'm this is why a lot of

1123
00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:04,880
people i've noticed a lot of people are

1124
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:07,040
suggesting in my analysis that i'm

1125
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:08,400
leaning towards some kind of

1126
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:10,800
extraterrestrial hypothesis

1127
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:13,920
i'm not i'm saying it's a mystery and

1128
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:14,480
i'm

1129
00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:17,040
exploring as a journalist should what's

1130
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:18,640
the plausible explanation

1131
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:21,680
and one thing i'm absolutely convinced

1132
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:22,320
about

1133
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:25,200
from my own sources is that my

1134
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:26,880
government and your government have not

1135
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:28,000
been entirely honest

1136
00:39:31,109 --> 00:39:30,400
with the public about what's going on

1137
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:31,119
and they are

1138
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:33,280
fully aware much much more aware than

1139
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:34,320
they care to admit

1140
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:36,160
of whatever this phenomenon is they've

1141
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:38,400
been monitoring it for years

1142
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:41,440
and i was led into that belief by

1143
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:43,839
other inquiries that i made i'd done a

1144
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:44,560
story

1145
00:39:50,310 --> 00:39:47,839
for a tv program in australia about

1146
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:50,320
an extraordinary blowout and defense

1147
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:51,200
expenditure

1148
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:54,640
on a project called jaune the genderley

1149
00:40:00,310 --> 00:39:57,920
over the horizon radar network

1150
00:40:00,950 --> 00:40:00,320
which is a backscatter radar which

1151
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:00,960
bounces

1152
00:40:04,230 --> 00:40:02,720
electromagnetic signals off the

1153
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:04,240
ionosphere and

1154
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:06,480
was originally conceived i think by the

1155
00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:08,880
americans and the british as a way of

1156
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:11,920
capturing low-flying bombers coming in

1157
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:14,480
doing sort of terrain-hugging attacks on

1158
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:16,480
the american continent

1159
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:18,240
unfortunately backscatter for a whole

1160
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:20,240
variety of reasons didn't work very well

1161
00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:21,359
as a as a raider

1162
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:23,440
notably because during sunrise and

1163
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:25,119
sunset there was a lot of em

1164
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:28,880
interference and a lot of the experts in

1165
00:40:33,109 --> 00:40:31,440
both your country britain and other

1166
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:33,119
countries including russia have told me

1167
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:34,240
that they've

1168
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:36,560
abandoned the research it was always

1169
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:38,160
inexplicable to me that australia

1170
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:40,800
was continuing to pour billions of

1171
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:41,280
dollars

1172
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:43,920
into this technology and i only recently

1173
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:45,119
learned that the reason

1174
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:48,480
why john is now so useful and still

1175
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:50,400
continuing in australia

1176
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:53,359
is because it is phenomenally good at

1177
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:54,000
picking up

1178
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:57,119
objects in low earth orbit and uh

1179
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:00,480
it's very very good at detecting space

1180
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:03,599
junk and what are euphemistically called

1181
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,960
space objects and

1182
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:08,720
my attention was then drawn to the fact

1183
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:10,880
that the americans have just installed a

1184
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:13,920
massive space telescope which is a very

1185
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:16,160
secret facility you know another part of

1186
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:16,960
north west cape

1187
00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:19,920
not too far from the the xmas harold

1188
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:21,280
halt base

1189
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:22,880
and i realized that there's an enormous

1190
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:24,400
amount of monitoring of

1191
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:26,720
space objects in exactly that part of

1192
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:28,400
the world what a coincidence and

1193
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:31,680
um uh you know all of the data streams

1194
00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:34,240
from john the generally over the horizon

1195
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:35,200
radar network

1196
00:41:39,109 --> 00:41:36,880
which i understand is primarily now

1197
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,119
looking at low earth orbit

1198
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:41,760
from jaune from the space telescope at

1199
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:42,720
exmouth

1200
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:45,839
but also from pine gap which is by far

1201
00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:48,079
and away the biggest and most important

1202
00:41:52,950 --> 00:41:51,200
base for the americans outside of your

1203
00:41:57,510 --> 00:41:52,960
continent of america

1204
00:42:00,829 --> 00:41:57,520
pine gap is also involved in monitoring

1205
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:00,839
both the telemetry of rival countries

1206
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:03,359
missiles missile launches

1207
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:06,640
but it also brings in the data from both

1208
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:07,359
your defense

1209
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:11,599
support program your dsp satellites

1210
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:15,200
and monitors anomalous objects

1211
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:18,000
that are called euphemistically fast

1212
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:19,440
walkers

1213
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:21,599
and uh people started using this term to

1214
00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:23,599
me including australians

1215
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:27,760
who had worked with without betraying my

1216
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,800
sources that

1217
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:30,640
there are australians who have deployed

1218
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,119
with what is now your space command

1219
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:34,880
and done exchanges with the united

1220
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:36,880
states involved in

1221
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:39,040
monitoring space objects who've told me

1222
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:40,880
that pine gap

1223
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:44,079
jawn and the space telescope at xmith

1224
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:46,640
are very heavily involved in monitoring

1225
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:49,680
anomalous space objects

1226
00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:52,160
and i was kind of working on that when i

1227
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:52,880
found

1228
00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:55,839
the references to bob fish in the

1229
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:56,800
wikileaks

1230
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:02,000
files the leaked files of the

1231
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:05,040
dnc the democratic party which were

1232
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:07,280
essentially the files primarily emails

1233
00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:08,880
of john podesta

1234
00:43:12,069 --> 00:43:11,680
the campaign manager for hillary clinton

1235
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:12,079
but

1236
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:14,079
uh an enormous number of emails

1237
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:16,160
thousands and thousands of emails

1238
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:19,200
and it shocked me that there was a guy

1239
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:20,880
in there called bob fish who'd

1240
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:22,800
communicated to john podesta

1241
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:25,920
his concern that as a very very highly

1242
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:26,640
cleared

1243
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:34,240
he had been made privy uh quite a few

1244
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:35,440
years ago

1245
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:38,560
to data

1246
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:41,920
from dsp satellites that was coming into

1247
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:43,920
an aerospace facility in

1248
00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:47,599
california in which he had personally

1249
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:48,160
seen

1250
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:51,680
the data showing an object coming from

1251
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:54,800
deep space changing

1252
00:44:01,750 --> 00:43:58,400
course and velocity in front of the dsp

1253
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:01,760
sensor the satellite sensor

1254
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:03,839
changing course again and then entering

1255
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:06,240
earth's atmosphere

1256
00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:08,800
and i checked out with a variety of

1257
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:09,359
people

1258
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:12,720
both in our defence and your

1259
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:16,000
defence forces and i confirmed that

1260
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:18,640
there are numerous sightings of

1261
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:20,640
anomalous objects that

1262
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:23,280
appear to be intelligently controlled

1263
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:24,319
that are dubbed

1264
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:27,280
fast walkers um coming in and out of

1265
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:28,400
earth orbit

1266
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:30,720
which are not explained and i'm not

1267
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:32,240
saying they're little green men i'm not

1268
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:34,000
saying they're aliens but it's a mystery

1269
00:44:37,990 --> 00:44:37,040
it's a genuine mystery and as a journal

1270
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:38,000
as a journalist i

1271
00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:40,319
i take the view that when you hear it

1272
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:42,000
from the caliber of people that i've

1273
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:43,839
spoken to particularly somebody who was

1274
00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:45,680
prepared to go on the record like bob

1275
00:44:50,470 --> 00:44:47,920
fish

1276
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:50,480
it just made me go why why isn't this

1277
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:52,560
much more aggressively investigated by

1278
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:58,069
baffles me it's amazing and and i think

1279
00:45:02,390 --> 00:44:59,440
part of the issue ryan

1280
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:02,400
is and i'm not dumping on my colleagues

1281
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:04,240
who cover defense and intelligence

1282
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:07,280
but when you do investigative journalism

1283
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:09,359
like i do you dip your toe into a

1284
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:11,280
subject area for a while and then you go

1285
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:12,240
out of it

1286
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,079
whereas a lot of the journalists who

1287
00:45:19,349 --> 00:45:16,240
cover defence national security

1288
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:19,359
foreign affairs intelligence they are

1289
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,280
reliant on those sources

1290
00:45:25,190 --> 00:45:23,599
that they engage with on a daily basis

1291
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,200
for the drip

1292
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:27,599
for the feed you know and a lot of the

1293
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:29,359
journalism that you see in the new york

1294
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:31,200
times and the washington post

1295
00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:33,119
more often than not it's a well-placed

1296
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:34,880
official often it's the

1297
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:36,720
it's the you know somebody in the

1298
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:38,000
president's office or somebody just

1299
00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:39,440
basically saying look this is what we

1300
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:39,920
know

1301
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:44,079
z and we want you to write a story that

1302
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:45,359
really helped if you wrote a story

1303
00:45:48,390 --> 00:45:46,079
saying x y

1304
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:48,400
and z and this is the god's truth and

1305
00:45:50,309 --> 00:45:49,520
here's a bit of evidence that you can

1306
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:50,319
talk about

1307
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:52,800
go away and write your story and because

1308
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:54,720
of that dependent relationship that

1309
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:56,640
exists between defense correspondents

1310
00:45:59,430 --> 00:45:58,240
national security correspondents

1311
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:59,440
particularly people who work at the

1312
00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:00,720
pentagon

1313
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:02,960
they've been acculturated i think into

1314
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:03,920
treating the

1315
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:06,880
whole ufo subject uap subject as we now

1316
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:07,359
call it

1317
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:12,800
anomalous unidentified aerial phenomena

1318
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:14,800
they've been acculturated into treating

1319
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:16,400
that i think with ridicule

1320
00:46:21,510 --> 00:46:19,760
and stigmatizing it and i've actually

1321
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:21,520
challenged a number of them on on this

1322
00:46:26,309 --> 00:46:23,359
because i've had phone calls from

1323
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:26,319
some very prominent american journalists

1324
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:27,760
who know of my work in the last few

1325
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:29,040
weeks

1326
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,880
and they've been testing a few stories

1327
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:32,400
out on me and it's quite exciting

1328
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:34,079
actually because there are some really

1329
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:35,520
interesting stories coming down the

1330
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:37,440
pipeline from some very reputable

1331
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:39,280
journalists in america

1332
00:46:45,349 --> 00:46:42,319
and i think it's slowly changing

1333
00:46:45,910 --> 00:46:45,359
but i think part of the problem here has

1334
00:46:48,069 --> 00:46:45,920
been

1335
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:48,079
that if you're somebody who works that

1336
00:46:52,870 --> 00:46:50,000
round if you work that

1337
00:46:55,349 --> 00:46:52,880
that brief all the time you make

1338
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:55,359
yourself very quickly unpopular

1339
00:46:59,750 --> 00:46:58,079
if you say hound the the president's

1340
00:47:02,230 --> 00:46:59,760
spokesperson or the pentagon

1341
00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:02,240
spokesperson with questions about uap

1342
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:03,839
because frankly they don't want to be

1343
00:47:10,150 --> 00:47:07,359
asked questions about uap

1344
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:10,160
but frankly i think they should be

1345
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:11,760
because we're now at a stage

1346
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:14,160
since april last year when the pentagon

1347
00:47:19,109 --> 00:47:16,079
formally admitted and this

1348
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:19,119
is the point the pentagon has

1349
00:47:23,829 --> 00:47:22,800
formally admitted it cannot explain the

1350
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:23,839
phenomena

1351
00:47:28,549 --> 00:47:26,480
that is described on the sensor systems

1352
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:28,559
and the videos that were captured for

1353
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:29,280
the tic tac

1354
00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:31,680
the gimbal and the go fast and other

1355
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:34,000
anomaly that have been seen by us navy

1356
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:34,960
pilots

1357
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:36,880
i'm told as recently as last week off

1358
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:38,800
the east coast of virginia

1359
00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:40,480
you know these sightings are going on

1360
00:47:43,349 --> 00:47:42,240
all the time there are anomalous

1361
00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:43,359
sightings happening

1362
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:45,280
all the time and it's not just in

1363
00:47:50,069 --> 00:47:47,920
america i get tired of that lame thing

1364
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:50,079
you get from some skeptics who say

1365
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:52,160
why do the ua uaps only ever show

1366
00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:54,000
themselves to americans you know who why

1367
00:47:58,470 --> 00:47:55,839
why do they do that that's not true

1368
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:58,480
i'm aware of pilots in our air force

1369
00:48:00,470 --> 00:48:00,079
here in australia who've told me they

1370
00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:00,480
would

1371
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:02,319
never go public about it but they've

1372
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:04,400
seen things commercial pilots i've

1373
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:05,040
spoken to

1374
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:07,280
from qantas and virgin airlines that

1375
00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:09,280
i've engaged with who told me

1376
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:12,400
they frequently see anomalous objects at

1377
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:15,119
high altitude that they can't explain

1378
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:19,440
but there's a culture of

1379
00:48:22,950 --> 00:48:21,359
ridicule there's a stigma there's a

1380
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:22,960
taboo that's been attached to this

1381
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:24,559
subject that i think is highly

1382
00:48:29,430 --> 00:48:26,079
unjustified

1383
00:48:31,109 --> 00:48:29,440
and certainly my journalistic antenna

1384
00:48:33,190 --> 00:48:31,119
and are twiddling and i'm getting the

1385
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:33,200
most phenomenal information coming in

1386
00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:34,000
the door from

1387
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:36,160
good people who know i'm not going to be

1388
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:38,000
reckless because i'm essentially let me

1389
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:40,079
be very clear about this

1390
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:43,200
if as i suspect what was hovering over

1391
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:45,839
an american base in australia in 1991

1392
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:47,040
was

1393
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:51,119
experimental american technology

1394
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:52,880
and i think that's the most plausible

1395
00:48:58,710 --> 00:48:54,960
explanation to be frank with you i

1396
00:49:01,910 --> 00:48:58,720
i think that the american pilots of that

1397
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:01,920
craft or somebody who was flying it

1398
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:03,280
thought that the people in the vehicle

1399
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:04,800
were americans at the base and they

1400
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:06,079
decided to have a bit of fun

1401
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:08,960
and buzz whoever it was and go hey let's

1402
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,640
give these guys a scare

1403
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:12,000
but they didn't realize there was a

1404
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:14,000
civilian on board because it was a very

1405
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:16,079
very serious breach of regulations for

1406
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:17,520
those policemen who have carried a

1407
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:18,640
civilian

1408
00:49:21,910 --> 00:49:20,400
and they got bollocked for it they got

1409
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:21,920
absolutely hammered for it i can tell

1410
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:22,319
you

1411
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:25,280
and the um the most plausible

1412
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:27,119
explanation to me is that the americans

1413
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:28,480
have been testing

1414
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:30,720
technology now i'm not saying that for

1415
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:31,920
sure and and

1416
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:33,359
i know a lot of people out there are

1417
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:34,559
frustrated that i'm not going to be

1418
00:49:39,910 --> 00:49:36,000
declaratory and say

1419
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:39,920
i know for sure i have a suspicion

1420
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:43,599
based on my sources that the americans

1421
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:46,079
have made a major breakthrough in some

1422
00:49:51,450 --> 00:49:47,760
kind of advanced propulsion

1423
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:51,460
and energy system they must have done

1424
00:49:59,430 --> 00:49:57,910
hey guys ryan spreck here when i'm not

1425
00:50:02,230 --> 00:49:59,440
making podcasts i

1426
00:50:03,190 --> 00:50:02,240
am listening to them seriously i'm

1427
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:03,200
obsessed

1428
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:05,760
and if there's one person and one show i

1429
00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:06,480
turn to

1430
00:50:09,750 --> 00:50:09,040
every week to hear stories of the

1431
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:09,760
strange

1432
00:50:13,349 --> 00:50:12,800
the weird and the unexplained it's of

1433
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:13,359
course

1434
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,640
gotta be jim harold's campfire with over

1435
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:18,240
500 episodes

1436
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:21,040
den of geek called jim harold's campfire

1437
00:50:24,549 --> 00:50:21,599
the

1438
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:24,559
best tool we have currently in existence

1439
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:26,000
to hear real-life scary

1440
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:28,720
stories from other human beings since

1441
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:29,760
the actual

1442
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:32,960
campfire was invented the concept

1443
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:35,119
is pretty simple jim talks to other

1444
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:37,440
regular folks and strange stuff that's

1445
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:38,640
happened to them

1446
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:42,240
and yes that includes ufos and uaps

1447
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:45,440
along with cryptids ghosts and true

1448
00:50:49,829 --> 00:50:47,760
head scratching mysteries one of my

1449
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:49,839
all-time favorite stories is one where a

1450
00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:52,400
woman almost ended up being absorbed

1451
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:55,280
by a painting in a mysterious bar that

1452
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:56,400
seemed like something

1453
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:59,040
straight out of the twilight zone or

1454
00:51:01,750 --> 00:51:00,800
there's the story of a young man who

1455
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:01,760
encountered a

1456
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:05,200
spider-like creature with baby hands

1457
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:07,200
then there's the story of a woman in

1458
00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:09,440
england who encountered what she thought

1459
00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:12,240
was a banshee only to suffer a horrible

1460
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:13,119
tragedy

1461
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:16,480
only moments later no not all

1462
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:19,040
of the stories in jim harold's campfire

1463
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:20,240
are horrifying

1464
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:22,559
some are actually pretty heartwarming

1465
00:51:28,309 --> 00:51:24,960
like a visit from a past loved one

1466
00:51:30,549 --> 00:51:28,319
or a peaceful near-death experience

1467
00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:30,559
regardless there are true and

1468
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:32,480
fascinating stories told

1469
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:34,880
by ordinary people who've had

1470
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:36,000
extraordinary

1471
00:51:42,870 --> 00:51:39,920
experiences so pull up a virtual log

1472
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:42,880
get cozy and tune in to jim harold's

1473
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:44,000
campfire

1474
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:47,280
available on apple podcasts spotify

1475
00:51:55,829 --> 00:51:49,520
or wherever you listen to somewhere in

1476
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:58,710
i'd love to ask you jumping off of that

1477
00:52:01,109 --> 00:51:59,280
i know

1478
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:01,119
you know you did cover so much in the

1479
00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:03,599
documentary in the limited time you had

1480
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:04,240
and um

1481
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:06,720
i'm sure in the book as well but you hit

1482
00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:07,920
it right on the head there

1483
00:52:11,829 --> 00:52:10,400
with um this technology here in the

1484
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:11,839
united states you know our

1485
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:14,240
our pentagon report even said you know a

1486
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,200
lot of these

1487
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:17,599
uap are not american tech but i think a

1488
00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:19,200
lot of us are kind of

1489
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:22,000
still suspicious of that um assumption

1490
00:52:25,829 --> 00:52:23,440
that they're making but

1491
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:25,839
you actually have brought up several

1492
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:27,680
times and we've spoken off the record

1493
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:28,480
about um

1494
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:31,680
these patents that the navy had with um

1495
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:32,000
uh

1496
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:34,319
salvatore pais is this something you've

1497
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:35,119
looked into

1498
00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:37,200
and uh do you think there's anything to

1499
00:52:41,190 --> 00:52:39,520
this that this could possibly be

1500
00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:41,200
what some of these navy pilots

1501
00:52:45,829 --> 00:52:42,640
encountered out there or

1502
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:45,839
something that america is working on

1503
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:46,160
look

1504
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:47,760
um you know if you go on the occam's

1505
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:49,920
razor principle you always look for the

1506
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:51,359
the simplest explanation

1507
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:54,960
first you know i i i er towards the

1508
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,520
simple

1509
00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:57,599
explanation which is that there is a

1510
00:53:02,470 --> 00:52:59,680
technology being tested in the black

1511
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:02,480
and i sure hope that's the case i really

1512
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:02,800
do

1513
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:06,400
because frankly i want our american ally

1514
00:53:10,150 --> 00:53:08,079
to be the one that controls this

1515
00:53:12,470 --> 00:53:10,160
technology not authoritarian

1516
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:12,480
dictatorships like china or russia that

1517
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:14,480
scares the hell out of me if they do

1518
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:17,520
have mastered technology like this

1519
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,599
the problem is good people like

1520
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:21,359
christopher mellen the former deputy

1521
00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:23,040
assistant secretary of defense

1522
00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:25,200
lua luzondo the guy who ran the ufo

1523
00:53:30,309 --> 00:53:26,480
program

1524
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:30,319
i think um uh i think even

1525
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:33,359
certain uh former cia officials certain

1526
00:53:35,829 --> 00:53:34,160
former senior

1527
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:35,839
defense officials they've all said

1528
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:37,359
publicly and some private

1529
00:53:40,950 --> 00:53:39,280
and numerous have said privately to me

1530
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:40,960
that this is not

1531
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:43,839
american military technology that that

1532
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:45,359
what's being seen

1533
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:47,680
cannot plausibly be explained by some

1534
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:49,280
black project

1535
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:51,200
and uh you know chris mellon told me i

1536
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:52,720
mean it was quite funny i was telling

1537
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:54,000
him how i one of the first

1538
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:56,640
stories i did on ufos was we interviewed

1539
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:57,599
um

1540
00:54:03,430 --> 00:54:01,119
way back in 1989 90

1541
00:54:05,510 --> 00:54:03,440
we spoke to a very senior member of the

1542
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:05,520
belgium air force about sightings of

1543
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:07,440
black triangles that at the time were

1544
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:08,800
being seen

1545
00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:11,040
frequently by tens of thousands of

1546
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:12,640
people over belgium

1547
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:15,680
and it was this huge mystery and

1548
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:17,520
the tv program i was working for at the

1549
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:19,280
time we did a live satellite interview

1550
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:20,000
with an

1551
00:54:24,790 --> 00:54:23,040
air force official and uh there was

1552
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:24,800
speculation at the time that there was

1553
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:26,880
this mysterious aircraft called the

1554
00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:29,680
aurora the uh americans were testing

1555
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:30,079
which

1556
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:33,359
was some kind of new super uh possibly

1557
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:34,160
anti-gravity

1558
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:37,119
craft that could do phenomenal maneuvers

1559
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:38,079
and of course

1560
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:41,839
what is that that's um 30 years later

1561
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:44,559
there is no such aircraft known to be in

1562
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:46,480
the american military arsenal and

1563
00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:48,319
the americans are formally denying that

1564
00:54:53,829 --> 00:54:50,880
they have any such technology

1565
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:53,839
and frankly i don't know whether to

1566
00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:54,480
believe them

1567
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:57,280
to be honest i i i think you know there

1568
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:59,359
are good reasons why governments lie

1569
00:55:03,109 --> 00:55:01,440
uh they lie for strategic reasons to

1570
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:03,119
protect national security and

1571
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:05,280
i would frankly if i had this technology

1572
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:06,960
i would lie about it i'd try and keep it

1573
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:08,880
secret as long as possible

1574
00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:10,720
so you can't exclude that possibility

1575
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:12,400
it's not easy

1576
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:15,359
waiting your way through this morass

1577
00:55:21,450 --> 00:55:18,240
it's not easy to reach a conclusion

1578
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:21,460
because frankly if as the american

1579
00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:22,640
[Music]

1580
00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:26,000
uap report has said this technology is

1581
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:27,359
not known

1582
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:30,240
to be in the united states military or

1583
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,680
anywhere if it's not in

1584
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:33,359
any of their rivals the russians or the

1585
00:55:36,630 --> 00:55:34,960
chinese

1586
00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:36,640
the only plausible remaining

1587
00:55:41,670 --> 00:55:38,480
explanations are

1588
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:41,680
not necessarily extraterrestrial

1589
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:45,599
but something non-human or

1590
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:47,760
and again i urge this because of the

1591
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:49,520
occam's razor principle

1592
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:52,480
is there somebody in private aerospace

1593
00:55:56,950 --> 00:55:53,760
is there somebody who

1594
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:56,960
as the mythical admiral wilson document

1595
00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:00,240
has speculated is testing this stuff

1596
00:56:04,630 --> 00:56:02,559
and that's where the salvator pay dr

1597
00:56:06,789 --> 00:56:04,640
salvatore pay patents come in

1598
00:56:07,829 --> 00:56:06,799
every physicist that i have spoken to

1599
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:07,839
and i've spoken to

1600
00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:10,960
quite a few have told me uh just for the

1601
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:12,079
benefit of your

1602
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:15,280
listeners there are patents that have

1603
00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:16,079
been filed

1604
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:19,760
by the u.s navy on behalf of a guy

1605
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:20,480
called dr

1606
00:56:26,950 --> 00:56:23,839
salvatory pay and they are

1607
00:56:30,710 --> 00:56:26,960
for the most absurd science fiction

1608
00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:30,720
sounding things like a trans-medium

1609
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:33,040
craft hybrid craft which can basically

1610
00:56:36,870 --> 00:56:33,839
move between

1611
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:36,880
air and water and presumably also orbit

1612
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:39,280
and as far as we can see it seems to be

1613
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:41,119
running on some kind of anti-gravity

1614
00:56:45,510 --> 00:56:43,119
propulsion system

1615
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:45,520
and as far as we can see as part of that

1616
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:46,960
there is also a room

1617
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:50,400
temperature superconductor which is

1618
00:56:54,230 --> 00:56:52,079
theoretically possible but not yet

1619
00:56:57,589 --> 00:56:54,240
acknowledged as being in existence by

1620
00:57:01,349 --> 00:56:57,599
conventional science there's also

1621
00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:01,359
a um oh god what else is there this

1622
00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:04,799
uh force field generator um

1623
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:07,520
which the scientist claims might even be

1624
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:09,359
able to push aside asteroids that are

1625
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:10,799
headed towards earth

1626
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:13,040
i mean this is wacky science fiction

1627
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:14,559
sounding stuff

1628
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,559
but when you go through those patents

1629
00:57:20,390 --> 00:57:18,079
and i go through this in some detail in

1630
00:57:23,829 --> 00:57:20,400
my book

1631
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:23,839
the u.s navy's research section

1632
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:26,000
at i think it's on the paxton river in

1633
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:27,760
washington dc

1634
00:57:31,349 --> 00:57:29,440
when they filed these patents one of

1635
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:31,359
them was initially knocked back

1636
00:57:36,069 --> 00:57:34,319
by the patent office because patents

1637
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:36,079
have to go through a testing process as

1638
00:57:39,750 --> 00:57:37,680
to whether or not they're plausible or

1639
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:39,760
scientifically possible

1640
00:57:46,470 --> 00:57:43,599
and the commander the senior officer who

1641
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:46,480
was supervising r d for the navy guy

1642
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:49,200
called james sheehy

1643
00:57:54,069 --> 00:57:52,799
wrote a letter asserting the veracity of

1644
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:54,079
the claims made

1645
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:57,599
by dr pay asserting that

1646
00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:00,720
some of these technologies are quote

1647
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:04,319
operable now under patent law i'm a

1648
00:58:07,910 --> 00:58:06,480
lawyer by training and under patent law

1649
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:07,920
one of the things you learn is that if

1650
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:08,880
you make a

1651
00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:13,359
false patent claim the patent is invalid

1652
00:58:17,430 --> 00:58:15,280
now some people have suggested that what

1653
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:17,440
this is all about is

1654
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:20,160
america being worried that our strategic

1655
00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:20,799
rivals

1656
00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:22,720
china and russia may be on the point of

1657
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:24,079
the technological breakthrough

1658
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:25,760
particularly with antigravitics or

1659
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:27,119
energy systems

1660
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:29,920
which means that america would lose an

1661
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:30,960
advantage

1662
00:58:34,950 --> 00:58:34,079
and have to pay patent fees to i mean

1663
00:58:36,390 --> 00:58:34,960
could you think of anything more

1664
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:36,400
ignominious having to pay

1665
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:38,559
for the right to use this technology

1666
00:58:42,549 --> 00:58:39,760
that's been developed by

1667
00:58:44,870 --> 00:58:42,559
china and the black and so the

1668
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:44,880
speculation is that what pays patents

1669
00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:47,119
represent is an attempt by the americas

1670
00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:49,200
to pre preempt that

1671
00:58:53,030 --> 00:58:51,760
and to say we have this technology

1672
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:53,040
already

1673
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:56,640
therefore when our rivals start showing

1674
00:59:00,630 --> 00:58:58,559
it and claiming rights to it we will be

1675
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,640
able to assert that we already have this

1676
00:59:04,069 --> 00:59:02,640
technology therefore we don't have to

1677
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:04,079
pay them for it

1678
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:10,870
and i would as i say to you i would keep

1679
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:12,720
it quiet and confidential as long as

1680
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:14,559
possible

1681
00:59:19,510 --> 00:59:17,760
the only problem with that is i think on

1682
00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:19,520
two occasions commander she

1683
00:59:23,829 --> 00:59:21,520
has actually made the representation

1684
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:23,839
that this technology is operable

1685
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:26,240
in writing and you can find those

1686
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:29,200
letters on the patent office website

1687
00:59:32,470 --> 00:59:31,040
i've never seen anything like that

1688
00:59:33,910 --> 00:59:32,480
before in my life it's quite

1689
00:59:35,190 --> 00:59:33,920
extraordinary as somebody who's worked

1690
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,200
with patents myself

1691
00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:37,200
it is and i've spoken to patent lawyers

1692
00:59:41,910 --> 00:59:38,880
as part of my research

1693
00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:41,920
the fact that the us navy r d

1694
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:43,760
people are asserting that this

1695
00:59:48,309 --> 00:59:45,520
technology is operable

1696
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:48,319
again for the life of me i do not know

1697
00:59:52,710 --> 00:59:50,240
why this is not on the front page of

1698
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:52,720
every major newspaper why are

1699
00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:55,040
representations like that being made by

1700
00:59:59,750 --> 00:59:57,680
the us navy if they are not true

1701
01:00:01,670 --> 00:59:59,760
because if they are not true and if they

1702
01:00:04,549 --> 01:00:01,680
are demonstrably untrue

1703
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:04,559
in the wash up those patents are useless

1704
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:06,960
they're a waste of time and money

1705
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,599
so why do they file them now one of the

1706
01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:11,280
other things you'd know is that there's

1707
01:00:15,270 --> 01:00:13,680
um there's legislation there's laws in

1708
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:15,280
the u.s that allow you to keep

1709
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:17,839
secret inventions secret and they could

1710
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:19,200
have done that

1711
01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:21,520
so i think there is a deliberate attempt

1712
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:23,119
to advertise the fact

1713
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:25,920
that they've developed this technology

1714
01:00:29,670 --> 01:00:26,400
but i

1715
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:29,680
er towards even though every physicist

1716
01:00:32,069 --> 01:00:31,359
i've spoken to tells me it's just not

1717
01:00:33,589 --> 01:00:32,079
possible

1718
01:00:36,069 --> 01:00:33,599
you know that that what's being

1719
01:00:38,069 --> 01:00:36,079
described here is just way beyond

1720
01:00:40,789 --> 01:00:38,079
what conventional physics has been able

1721
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:40,799
to analyze and describe

1722
01:00:44,150 --> 01:00:42,640
i do think it's possible that the

1723
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:44,160
americans are sitting on a major

1724
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:45,680
breakthrough

1725
01:00:49,430 --> 01:00:47,760
but then i balance that and this is the

1726
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:49,440
cognitive dissonance in this i balance

1727
01:00:54,069 --> 01:00:51,040
that with the fact that the uap

1728
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:54,079
report has actually said categorically

1729
01:00:59,030 --> 01:00:56,880
that this ain't american technology

1730
01:01:00,950 --> 01:00:59,040
so i don't know where we are what i can

1731
01:01:01,750 --> 01:01:00,960
do is as a journalist i can state the

1732
01:01:04,789 --> 01:01:01,760
dilemma

1733
01:01:06,470 --> 01:01:04,799
the mystery and that's the fun part the

1734
01:01:08,230 --> 01:01:06,480
fun part now is trying to figure out

1735
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:08,240
what this all means

1736
01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:10,640
we shouldn't be leaping to conclusions

1737
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:11,520
you know

1738
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:13,200
one-on-one does not make little green

1739
01:01:18,230 --> 01:01:15,200
men uh it doesn't mean

1740
01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:18,240
necessarily extraterrestrial

1741
01:01:24,069 --> 01:01:21,920
frankly i hope

1742
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:24,079
if it's not american technology i hope

1743
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:25,599
it is extraterrestrial

1744
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:27,599
i hope it is non-human technology

1745
01:01:31,510 --> 01:01:30,079
because if it's russian or chinese god

1746
01:01:32,789 --> 01:01:31,520
help all of us

1747
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:32,799
you know they would abuse that

1748
01:01:37,589 --> 01:01:35,119
technology use it to control the world

1749
01:01:38,309 --> 01:01:37,599
it's awesome the implications of this

1750
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:38,319
technology

1751
01:01:41,789 --> 01:01:40,559
are that you know you can essentially

1752
01:01:44,549 --> 01:01:41,799
attack your enemies

1753
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:44,559
instantaneously by stealth i mean if you

1754
01:01:49,030 --> 01:01:45,760
go through the uh

1755
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:49,040
the known observables that lua lozando

1756
01:01:55,029 --> 01:01:51,040
has described so well

1757
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:55,039
this is the ultimate weapon and

1758
01:02:00,950 --> 01:01:58,880
frankly i have a hunch

1759
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:00,960
just from i mean i've spoken i've spent

1760
01:02:05,270 --> 01:02:03,520
many many many long hours and i know

1761
01:02:07,029 --> 01:02:05,280
again this frustrates many of your

1762
01:02:09,109 --> 01:02:07,039
listeners that i can't talk openly about

1763
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:09,119
who these people are but

1764
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:11,520
i've i've had privileged briefings with

1765
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:13,839
people who purport

1766
01:02:19,829 --> 01:02:17,599
to have been involved in the program

1767
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:19,839
in the us now i'm not leaping to

1768
01:02:23,109 --> 01:02:21,359
conclusions when they say that they've

1769
01:02:23,670 --> 01:02:23,119
been involved in a crash retrieval

1770
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:23,680
program

1771
01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:25,359
i'm not leaping to conclusions that

1772
01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:27,359
that's true because

1773
01:02:30,069 --> 01:02:28,880
one thing you have to take into account

1774
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:30,079
as a journalist and i've been on the

1775
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:31,520
receiving end of these before

1776
01:02:36,309 --> 01:02:34,559
is deliberate disinformation a country

1777
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:36,319
like america might be at a strategic

1778
01:02:38,950 --> 01:02:38,480
disadvantage for example it might know

1779
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:38,960
that

1780
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:41,119
say hypothetically the russians have

1781
01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:42,160
been able to develop

1782
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:43,359
some kind of breakthrough in

1783
01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:45,920
antigravitics or or maybe

1784
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:48,240
the chinese maybe somebody who was

1785
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:49,680
working for the americans might have

1786
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:51,200
defected to the chinese

1787
01:02:55,829 --> 01:02:54,000
i'm told that they have and maybe that

1788
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:55,839
anti-gravity technology is now being

1789
01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:57,680
worked on in the black by the chinese

1790
01:03:01,829 --> 01:02:59,760
and maybe this behind the scenes a great

1791
01:03:03,829 --> 01:03:01,839
race going on to try and develop this

1792
01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:03,839
technology before everyone else

1793
01:03:08,230 --> 01:03:05,440
maybe that's the reason for the dr

1794
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:08,240
salvatore pay patents

1795
01:03:15,349 --> 01:03:11,680
i simply don't know but what i do know

1796
01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:15,359
is that multiple sources have told me

1797
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:18,400
including one on the record nat

1798
01:03:24,069 --> 01:03:21,200
cobits the former head of science and

1799
01:03:26,789 --> 01:03:24,079
technology development for the us navy

1800
01:03:27,589 --> 01:03:26,799
he told me he was briefed into a crash

1801
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:27,599
retrieval

1802
01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:30,000
program i almost fell off my chair when

1803
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:31,039
he told me this

1804
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:33,359
this is a one of the senior boffins for

1805
01:03:37,750 --> 01:03:35,280
the us navy

1806
01:03:39,910 --> 01:03:37,760
and he tells me i was briefed into a

1807
01:03:43,270 --> 01:03:39,920
crash retrieval program where i was told

1808
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:43,280
that we had recovered multiple ufos

1809
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:46,400
really do you have any reason to believe

1810
01:03:50,230 --> 01:03:47,920
he would be

1811
01:03:51,829 --> 01:03:50,240
trying to disinform you or anyone else

1812
01:03:55,029 --> 01:03:51,839
or is this a source you

1813
01:03:57,430 --> 01:03:55,039
fully fully trust look um

1814
01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:57,440
there's always i mean you can't exclude

1815
01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:59,200
this possibility the circumstances were

1816
01:04:01,670 --> 01:03:59,760
that i

1817
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:01,680
wrote one of the strategies i adopted

1818
01:04:07,029 --> 01:04:04,240
when i did my research

1819
01:04:07,910 --> 01:04:07,039
i am fanatical about protecting sources

1820
01:04:09,829 --> 01:04:07,920
you have to be

1821
01:04:11,430 --> 01:04:09,839
as a journalist you can't burn your

1822
01:04:13,190 --> 01:04:11,440
sources

1823
01:04:15,190 --> 01:04:13,200
and so one of the problems we have these

1824
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:15,200
days and this has been highlighted today

1825
01:04:18,549 --> 01:04:17,280
actually by the pegasus leak which shows

1826
01:04:20,309 --> 01:04:18,559
how easy it is to hack

1827
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:20,319
mobile phones it's just been a huge

1828
01:04:24,069 --> 01:04:22,400
revelation the last 24 hours

1829
01:04:25,829 --> 01:04:24,079
the london guardians broken a story

1830
01:04:27,910 --> 01:04:25,839
saying how easy it is to plant tracking

1831
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:27,920
software that allows you to monitor

1832
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:30,880
a target's mobile phones and so i know

1833
01:04:34,390 --> 01:04:32,400
i've known for years i've done stories

1834
01:04:37,190 --> 01:04:34,400
about it myself how wide open

1835
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:37,200
telephony email all manner of electronic

1836
01:04:42,549 --> 01:04:40,319
communications are to a deception

1837
01:04:43,670 --> 01:04:42,559
and here am i trying to get a break as a

1838
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:43,680
journal on

1839
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:46,160
what is probably if true the biggest

1840
01:04:49,109 --> 01:04:46,720
secret

1841
01:04:50,950 --> 01:04:49,119
ever you know biggest story ever frankly

1842
01:04:52,309 --> 01:04:50,960
if this is true if we really are talking

1843
01:04:53,670 --> 01:04:52,319
about what we're talking about being

1844
01:04:56,069 --> 01:04:53,680
real

1845
01:04:57,670 --> 01:04:56,079
and uh so i i thought what's that what's

1846
01:04:59,190 --> 01:04:57,680
the way i can contact these people

1847
01:04:59,990 --> 01:04:59,200
because i was going through scientific

1848
01:05:01,589 --> 01:05:00,000
papers and

1849
01:05:03,910 --> 01:05:01,599
reading the names of people who'd

1850
01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:03,920
written interesting papers and thinking

1851
01:05:09,190 --> 01:05:06,720
how the hell do i contact these people

1852
01:05:12,309 --> 01:05:09,200
without compromising them

1853
01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:12,319
and so i literally sat down and i wrote

1854
01:05:17,190 --> 01:05:15,280
over i think it was over 160 letters i

1855
01:05:20,150 --> 01:05:17,200
just wrote letters for days

1856
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:20,160
weeks and the local post office got to

1857
01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:21,440
know me really well i

1858
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:24,240
i spent an awful lot of money on stamps

1859
01:05:27,750 --> 01:05:24,880
and

1860
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:27,760
i posted good old-fashioned letters to

1861
01:05:30,390 --> 01:05:29,440
people all over the united states

1862
01:05:33,270 --> 01:05:30,400
because

1863
01:05:33,990 --> 01:05:33,280
what amused me is that even former top

1864
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:34,000
generals

1865
01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:36,880
former top intelligence officials former

1866
01:05:41,190 --> 01:05:39,200
senior scientists serving scientists

1867
01:05:43,109 --> 01:05:41,200
serving officials in your military

1868
01:05:44,549 --> 01:05:43,119
they all have home addresses and god

1869
01:05:46,789 --> 01:05:44,559
knows why in the modern

1870
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:46,799
age of terrorism you can get their home

1871
01:05:51,910 --> 01:05:48,960
addresses and their phone numbers

1872
01:05:52,230 --> 01:05:51,920
so i i wrote to people you know i wrote

1873
01:05:54,390 --> 01:05:52,240
to

1874
01:05:55,510 --> 01:05:54,400
people like general neil mchesland and

1875
01:05:58,710 --> 01:05:55,520
um

1876
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:58,720
i sent letters saying you know he i'm

1877
01:06:02,390 --> 01:06:00,240
a journalist i'm investigating this

1878
01:06:04,230 --> 01:06:02,400
issue by the way neil mccaslin did not

1879
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:04,240
respond to my letter

1880
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:07,680
but a lot did and i was amazed because i

1881
01:06:11,349 --> 01:06:08,559
gave my

1882
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:11,359
encrypted messaging systems signal

1883
01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:12,960
telegram

1884
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:15,200
protonmail which by the way you can find

1885
01:06:20,230 --> 01:06:17,039
on my twitter handle

1886
01:06:24,150 --> 01:06:20,240
and uh i invited people to contact me

1887
01:06:25,910 --> 01:06:24,160
and about a month or so after i'd

1888
01:06:28,390 --> 01:06:25,920
sent off these letters i started getting

1889
01:06:32,870 --> 01:06:28,400
really interesting calls and and

1890
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:32,880
messages from people who were telling me

1891
01:06:39,430 --> 01:06:36,079
eventually that they were involved in

1892
01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:39,440
what some called the program and uh

1893
01:06:43,990 --> 01:06:42,400
essentially it was an attempt to back

1894
01:06:48,069 --> 01:06:44,000
engineer

1895
01:06:51,990 --> 01:06:48,079
recovered non-human technology

1896
01:06:53,670 --> 01:06:52,000
craft and i look i cheerfully admit the

1897
01:06:54,950 --> 01:06:53,680
first couple of times that i was told

1898
01:06:57,029 --> 01:06:54,960
about this i

1899
01:06:59,190 --> 01:06:57,039
treated it as a bit of a joke i i

1900
01:07:00,950 --> 01:06:59,200
laughed i thought this is wacky stuff

1901
01:07:03,109 --> 01:07:00,960
somebody's deliberately sewing me with

1902
01:07:05,670 --> 01:07:03,119
disinformation and then

1903
01:07:06,950 --> 01:07:05,680
one day net cobits literally rang me i

1904
01:07:09,109 --> 01:07:06,960
couldn't believe it this guy

1905
01:07:11,109 --> 01:07:09,119
from the former head of navy science and

1906
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:11,119
technology development like the chief

1907
01:07:17,670 --> 01:07:14,400
boffins for the us navy for decades

1908
01:07:19,670 --> 01:07:17,680
rang me out of the blue and it was in

1909
01:07:22,309 --> 01:07:19,680
the middle of the sydney bushfires

1910
01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:22,319
and um you know at the time it looked

1911
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:23,920
like the whole city might get wiped out

1912
01:07:27,910 --> 01:07:26,640
we had fires on every front and um

1913
01:07:29,589 --> 01:07:27,920
i think because he was seeing this

1914
01:07:30,789 --> 01:07:29,599
vision on his tv he said at home and the

1915
01:07:32,950 --> 01:07:30,799
poor fellow was

1916
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:32,960
very very very seriously ill he had

1917
01:07:38,870 --> 01:07:36,079
cancer very advanced cancer

1918
01:07:39,510 --> 01:07:38,880
he um he rang me and he goes ross you

1919
01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:39,520
need to get

1920
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:42,720
and get the the the top

1921
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:44,640
soviet water bomber and he was what he

1922
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:46,160
wanted me to get the the russians to

1923
01:07:49,510 --> 01:07:47,200
send over their

1924
01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:49,520
big water bomber and um you know he was

1925
01:07:54,470 --> 01:07:51,920
just this tech geek who wanted to share

1926
01:07:56,069 --> 01:07:54,480
information and so for days i just

1927
01:07:56,789 --> 01:07:56,079
talked to him about what he'd worked on

1928
01:07:58,630 --> 01:07:56,799
in the navy

1929
01:08:00,309 --> 01:07:58,640
and it was just such a privilege to

1930
01:08:02,390 --> 01:08:00,319
speak to somebody who right through the

1931
01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:02,400
cold war had worked on

1932
01:08:08,230 --> 01:08:06,640
top vehicles and technologies in the um

1933
01:08:09,990 --> 01:08:08,240
in the u.s military and it was a real

1934
01:08:13,270 --> 01:08:10,000
insight because he was such a

1935
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:13,280
generous sharing warm guy and i made it

1936
01:08:16,550 --> 01:08:14,799
clear in my letter that i was really

1937
01:08:20,229 --> 01:08:16,560
interested in talking about

1938
01:08:22,470 --> 01:08:20,239
the phenomenon you know ufos uaps but

1939
01:08:24,789 --> 01:08:22,480
after about the third or fourth call he

1940
01:08:26,550 --> 01:08:24,799
finally then said to me

1941
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:26,560
so ross why why don't you ask me the

1942
01:08:30,390 --> 01:08:28,719
question and i went

1943
01:08:32,630 --> 01:08:30,400
what question would that be that and he

1944
01:08:35,030 --> 01:08:32,640
went you know something like you know

1945
01:08:37,669 --> 01:08:35,040
and so i did i i asked him about you

1946
01:08:40,229 --> 01:08:37,679
know was he ever read into

1947
01:08:40,709 --> 01:08:40,239
a crash retrieval program you know was

1948
01:08:44,229 --> 01:08:40,719
he ever

1949
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:44,239
security briefed to be briefed on

1950
01:08:50,630 --> 01:08:47,440
claims the united states has recovered

1951
01:08:52,789 --> 01:08:50,640
alien craft and i fully expected him to

1952
01:08:53,829 --> 01:08:52,799
go like come on rasta it's just crazy

1953
01:08:55,829 --> 01:08:53,839
you know why

1954
01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:55,839
why you asking me that question and

1955
01:09:00,950 --> 01:08:57,359
there was this kind of pregnant

1956
01:09:03,030 --> 01:09:00,960
pause after i asked the first question

1957
01:09:04,550 --> 01:09:03,040
and i was about to change the subject

1958
01:09:05,829 --> 01:09:04,560
and move on out of embarrassment and

1959
01:09:09,430 --> 01:09:05,839
then he went

1960
01:09:11,110 --> 01:09:09,440
yes but i wasn't read out of it

1961
01:09:12,709 --> 01:09:11,120
and for that reason i can't say much

1962
01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:12,719
more about it

1963
01:09:17,749 --> 01:09:15,120
and i pushed him a little bit and i said

1964
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:17,759
so you were right into a program

1965
01:09:25,110 --> 01:09:20,880
involving the retrieval of an alien

1966
01:09:28,229 --> 01:09:25,120
spacecraft yes

1967
01:09:31,110 --> 01:09:28,239
and i went multiple craft or a single

1968
01:09:35,669 --> 01:09:33,430
and that blew me away i mean i had a

1969
01:09:36,789 --> 01:09:35,679
senior american former official of the

1970
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:36,799
us navy

1971
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:39,120
research and development prepared to go

1972
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:40,799
on the record i checked it with him and

1973
01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:43,120
he was prepared to go on the record

1974
01:09:46,470 --> 01:09:45,120
as he said to me sadly what are they

1975
01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:46,480
going to do to me

1976
01:09:50,390 --> 01:09:48,719
he knew he was going to die and it was

1977
01:09:52,309 --> 01:09:50,400
really sad because

1978
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:52,319
i've had some fairly snide people say to

1979
01:09:55,030 --> 01:09:53,520
me in the um

1980
01:09:56,790 --> 01:09:55,040
messaging i've received in the last few

1981
01:09:57,830 --> 01:09:56,800
weeks are how convenient that this guy

1982
01:09:59,270 --> 01:09:57,840
died you know

1983
01:10:01,750 --> 01:09:59,280
you can just basically put any words you

1984
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:01,760
want to his mouth

1985
01:10:05,910 --> 01:10:04,960
um there's no way of responding to

1986
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:05,920
people like that i

1987
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:08,640
i mean the bottom line is journals use

1988
01:10:13,590 --> 01:10:11,120
background sources all the time

1989
01:10:14,470 --> 01:10:13,600
and in my book it takes a special form

1990
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:14,480
of courage

1991
01:10:18,070 --> 01:10:16,640
for any public official or former public

1992
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:18,080
official to agree to speak to a

1993
01:10:21,270 --> 01:10:19,920
journalist it's always the hardest thing

1994
01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:21,280
to do and the thing that

1995
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:23,280
i have sleepless nights about is

1996
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:25,360
compromising sources

1997
01:10:31,270 --> 01:10:28,320
so take it as read that i took steps to

1998
01:10:33,669 --> 01:10:31,280
ensure that nat's

1999
01:10:35,030 --> 01:10:33,679
position was very very clear and on the

2000
01:10:37,750 --> 01:10:35,040
record

2001
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:37,760
and that its provenance cannot be

2002
01:10:41,750 --> 01:10:39,600
challenged

2003
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:41,760
i'm not going to describe the details of

2004
01:10:45,590 --> 01:10:43,679
how i ensured that but i'm

2005
01:10:48,149 --> 01:10:45,600
i'm very confident that he was telling

2006
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:48,159
me what he believed to be the truth

2007
01:10:55,350 --> 01:10:51,760
and the the nice thing about it is

2008
01:10:56,950 --> 01:10:55,360
he put me on to a series of colleagues

2009
01:11:00,070 --> 01:10:56,960
of his

2010
01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:00,080
who introduced me to the fact that

2011
01:11:09,350 --> 01:11:09,030
so the story's only just begun right

2012
01:11:12,709 --> 01:11:09,360
yeah

2013
01:11:14,229 --> 01:11:12,719
and i mean and look i don't rush away i

2014
01:11:15,669 --> 01:11:14,239
mean no journalist would

2015
01:11:17,830 --> 01:11:15,679
you don't rush away at that point and

2016
01:11:19,430 --> 01:11:17,840
say hey wow i know the us has got an

2017
01:11:21,590 --> 01:11:19,440
alien spacecraft jacked up on timber

2018
01:11:23,669 --> 01:11:21,600
blocks in a cave in area 51. you just

2019
01:11:25,510 --> 01:11:23,679
can't you know that's just not evidence

2020
01:11:26,790 --> 01:11:25,520
it's essentially hearsay because he

2021
01:11:28,709 --> 01:11:26,800
never saw

2022
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:28,719
a craft so essentially it's hearsay at

2023
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:30,239
that point

2024
01:11:35,430 --> 01:11:33,040
but what i'm very very confident about

2025
01:11:37,270 --> 01:11:35,440
is that a very senior official of the us

2026
01:11:40,070 --> 01:11:37,280
navy was

2027
01:11:41,910 --> 01:11:40,080
read into a program where he was told

2028
01:11:43,830 --> 01:11:41,920
that the u.s had recovered multiple

2029
01:11:46,149 --> 01:11:43,840
craft

2030
01:11:48,070 --> 01:11:46,159
and moreover he told me that on a

2031
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:48,080
subsequent occasion after he'd gone into

2032
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:49,360
a private

2033
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:52,640
business working in a very specialized

2034
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:53,280
form of

2035
01:12:00,630 --> 01:11:57,120
metal bonding called electron beam

2036
01:12:03,990 --> 01:12:00,640
welding ebm

2037
01:12:07,350 --> 01:12:04,000
ebw he he was rung by

2038
01:12:10,550 --> 01:12:07,360
the air force the u.s air force and they

2039
01:12:12,550 --> 01:12:10,560
invited him to go to wright-patterson

2040
01:12:14,229 --> 01:12:12,560
air force base the legendary what we

2041
01:12:15,669 --> 01:12:14,239
would call the foreign technology

2042
01:12:17,910 --> 01:12:15,679
division

2043
01:12:19,590 --> 01:12:17,920
and as he told me with a chuckle we

2044
01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:19,600
really did go underground

2045
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:22,880
and uh he described being taken into a

2046
01:12:27,910 --> 01:12:23,360
very

2047
01:12:31,669 --> 01:12:27,920
to examine

2048
01:12:34,149 --> 01:12:31,679
what he is told nothing about it

2049
01:12:35,510 --> 01:12:34,159
but he saw it look like a bulkhead

2050
01:12:37,189 --> 01:12:35,520
that's the way he described it to me it

2051
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:37,199
was a large lump of metal that it looked

2052
01:12:42,310 --> 01:12:39,760
like part of a bulkhead

2053
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:42,320
and the question he was asked was was

2054
01:12:45,189 --> 01:12:43,199
the form

2055
01:12:46,470 --> 01:12:45,199
by which these metals were bonded

2056
01:12:47,910 --> 01:12:46,480
electron beam

2057
01:12:49,270 --> 01:12:47,920
welding because they were trying to

2058
01:12:51,350 --> 01:12:49,280
understand how these metals had been

2059
01:12:54,310 --> 01:12:51,360
bonded

2060
01:12:57,590 --> 01:12:54,320
and he looked at it both visually and

2061
01:12:59,910 --> 01:12:57,600
under an electron microscope and he was

2062
01:13:01,430 --> 01:12:59,920
absolutely perplexed by what he saw

2063
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:01,440
because he said it was not

2064
01:13:06,790 --> 01:13:04,800
any known bond because he said even

2065
01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:06,800
even electron beam welding which is a

2066
01:13:11,110 --> 01:13:09,040
very very high quality form of welding

2067
01:13:15,590 --> 01:13:11,120
where it doesn't really leave the bead

2068
01:13:17,910 --> 01:13:15,600
that you normally see on a weld

2069
01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:17,920
it normally has a microscopic bead that

2070
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:19,280
you can see and he says he could see

2071
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:20,960
nothing like that he said that what he

2072
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:23,040
saw were two metals that were connected

2073
01:13:28,709 --> 01:13:26,560
at an atomic level

2074
01:13:29,910 --> 01:13:28,719
and he said it was mind blowing he said

2075
01:13:33,189 --> 01:13:29,920
it was a technology he'd

2076
01:13:35,189 --> 01:13:33,199
never seen before and he wanted to know

2077
01:13:38,709 --> 01:13:35,199
what it was because it was so

2078
01:13:40,669 --> 01:13:38,719
incredibly interesting but as so many of

2079
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:40,679
these things are it was very heavily

2080
01:13:44,310 --> 01:13:42,640
compartmentalized he was under a top

2081
01:13:48,310 --> 01:13:44,320
secret national security oath

2082
01:13:49,910 --> 01:13:48,320
and probably sci sap constraints

2083
01:13:51,750 --> 01:13:49,920
he couldn't tell me any more about it

2084
01:13:51,990 --> 01:13:51,760
but he obviously knew a lot more about

2085
01:13:55,390 --> 01:13:52,000
it

2086
01:13:56,550 --> 01:13:55,400
indicated that um

2087
01:14:00,390 --> 01:13:56,560
[Music]

2088
01:14:03,110 --> 01:14:00,400
there was more there to tell but um

2089
01:14:04,870 --> 01:14:03,120
one thing he did do was very unselfishly

2090
01:14:07,510 --> 01:14:04,880
share with me

2091
01:14:10,950 --> 01:14:07,520
names of people who i could talk to who

2092
01:14:13,830 --> 01:14:10,960
he was aware knew more about the program

2093
01:14:15,510 --> 01:14:13,840
and you know i have a suspicion let me

2094
01:14:17,590 --> 01:14:15,520
put it at that i think on the balance of

2095
01:14:19,030 --> 01:14:17,600
probabilities it's more likely than not

2096
01:14:21,750 --> 01:14:19,040
that the united states

2097
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:21,760
is working in the black on highly

2098
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:22,400
advanced

2099
01:14:26,229 --> 01:14:24,000
technology that it's recovered from

2100
01:14:28,229 --> 01:14:26,239
somewhere i think the word that louis

2101
01:14:31,669 --> 01:14:28,239
lozando used as exotic

2102
01:14:32,870 --> 01:14:31,679
technology dr eric davis has flatly

2103
01:14:36,229 --> 01:14:32,880
asserted that they are

2104
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:36,239
retrieved alien spacecraft senator harry

2105
01:14:39,910 --> 01:14:38,000
reid came pretty close in the new york

2106
01:14:41,830 --> 01:14:39,920
times story to talking

2107
01:14:43,350 --> 01:14:41,840
on a background on an after not off the

2108
01:14:44,430 --> 01:14:43,360
record basis in an indirect quote

2109
01:14:45,510 --> 01:14:44,440
basically he was um

2110
01:14:47,189 --> 01:14:45,520
[Music]

2111
01:14:48,550 --> 01:14:47,199
he was attributed originally as saying

2112
01:14:51,669 --> 01:14:48,560
that he thought that they were

2113
01:14:53,030 --> 01:14:51,679
um alien objects it's what she's since

2114
01:14:56,950 --> 01:14:53,040
resiled from i noticed

2115
01:14:58,790 --> 01:14:56,960
but um you know there are

2116
01:15:00,390 --> 01:14:58,800
other officials that i've spoken to

2117
01:15:03,910 --> 01:15:00,400
who've

2118
01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:03,920
told me privately that the position

2119
01:15:10,070 --> 01:15:07,360
held by the us government that

2120
01:15:13,270 --> 01:15:10,080
it doesn't know a lot about this

2121
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:13,280
technology is a complete bare-faced lie

2122
01:15:20,630 --> 01:15:17,280
that they know an awful lot

2123
01:15:22,950 --> 01:15:20,640
bob fish for example the former

2124
01:15:23,990 --> 01:15:22,960
defense telecommunications expert he's a

2125
01:15:25,669 --> 01:15:24,000
guy who actually installed

2126
01:15:27,110 --> 01:15:25,679
the communication system for the white

2127
01:15:28,790 --> 01:15:27,120
house he had you know

2128
01:15:30,310 --> 01:15:28,800
very very high level security

2129
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:30,320
classifications worked at

2130
01:15:35,110 --> 01:15:32,080
very very high levels in aerospace

2131
01:15:37,030 --> 01:15:35,120
companies for many many years and he was

2132
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:37,040
happy to be quoted on the record

2133
01:15:40,550 --> 01:15:38,880
god bless him you know what a great

2134
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:40,560
person for doing that because as he said

2135
01:15:42,870 --> 01:15:41,760
to me he said the public should know

2136
01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:42,880
this stuff

2137
01:15:47,750 --> 01:15:45,600
and he he was telling me he'd seen data

2138
01:15:50,390 --> 01:15:47,760
showing that there are frequent

2139
01:15:51,430 --> 01:15:50,400
uh objects coming in and out of our

2140
01:15:54,149 --> 01:15:51,440
orbit

2141
01:15:54,950 --> 01:15:54,159
aerospace that that that are not able to

2142
01:15:58,709 --> 01:15:54,960
be explained

2143
01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:58,719
as known objects to the you know part of

2144
01:16:02,870 --> 01:15:59,520
planet earth's

2145
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:02,880
arsenal but he also told me that the the

2146
01:16:06,310 --> 01:16:04,640
united states and this is nearly 30

2147
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:06,320
years ago now what he saw

2148
01:16:10,149 --> 01:16:08,400
that at that time the united states was

2149
01:16:12,630 --> 01:16:10,159
working on technologies that allowed

2150
01:16:15,830 --> 01:16:12,640
them to trace the electromagnetic

2151
01:16:17,590 --> 01:16:15,840
signature of these uaps

2152
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:17,600
that they could almost predict them when

2153
01:16:21,270 --> 01:16:18,880
they were

2154
01:16:23,270 --> 01:16:21,280
moving and and anticipate them and

2155
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:23,280
detect them and track them

2156
01:16:27,030 --> 01:16:25,280
and uh one of the things that's recorded

2157
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:27,040
in the wikileaks files

2158
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:29,600
and again i i mean it's a big bus

2159
01:16:32,790 --> 01:16:31,280
sitting in the middle of the road

2160
01:16:34,709 --> 01:16:32,800
begging for a national security

2161
01:16:35,270 --> 01:16:34,719
correspondent to ask the question you

2162
01:16:36,709 --> 01:16:35,280
know

2163
01:16:38,149 --> 01:16:36,719
and i don't have the clout in the

2164
01:16:39,750 --> 01:16:38,159
pentagon to be able to stand up at a

2165
01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:39,760
pentagon briefing and say uh

2166
01:16:42,790 --> 01:16:42,080
excuse me uh can you please explain what

2167
01:16:43,830 --> 01:16:42,800
this uh

2168
01:16:46,149 --> 01:16:43,840
what this reference here in the

2169
01:16:47,910 --> 01:16:46,159
wikileaks files is about you guys using

2170
01:16:48,950 --> 01:16:47,920
electromagnetic signatures to detect

2171
01:16:51,510 --> 01:16:48,960
ufos

2172
01:16:53,270 --> 01:16:51,520
but it's there for everybody to see like

2173
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:53,280
a big

2174
01:16:57,350 --> 01:16:54,880
paintball in the middle of a bloody

2175
01:16:59,270 --> 01:16:57,360
highway ask the question

2176
01:17:01,270 --> 01:16:59,280
you know prob the stick and see what

2177
01:17:03,430 --> 01:17:01,280
happens because seriously the evidence

2178
01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:03,440
is there to start looking

2179
01:17:09,750 --> 01:17:07,440
and you know i one of the things

2180
01:17:10,630 --> 01:17:09,760
in my line of work that you look for are

2181
01:17:12,870 --> 01:17:10,640
leads

2182
01:17:14,390 --> 01:17:12,880
you know you know pretty soon whether a

2183
01:17:17,110 --> 01:17:14,400
story is

2184
01:17:19,830 --> 01:17:17,120
wanting to be told uh many journals get

2185
01:17:21,990 --> 01:17:19,840
quite mystical about storytelling you

2186
01:17:22,950 --> 01:17:22,000
you think of the story as kind of like a

2187
01:17:26,070 --> 01:17:22,960
living creature

2188
01:17:28,149 --> 01:17:26,080
and um if it wants to be told it

2189
01:17:29,669 --> 01:17:28,159
facilitates your access you know people

2190
01:17:30,550 --> 01:17:29,679
suddenly agree to speak to you you know

2191
01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:30,560
they um

2192
01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:31,920
you know they're willing to engage

2193
01:17:36,709 --> 01:17:34,560
documents arrive in your inbox

2194
01:17:39,590 --> 01:17:36,719
that's what's happening to me right now

2195
01:17:42,870 --> 01:17:39,600
you know there is a real willingness

2196
01:17:44,950 --> 01:17:42,880
from people wanting to engage um

2197
01:17:46,790 --> 01:17:44,960
they're happy that somebody who takes

2198
01:17:50,390 --> 01:17:46,800
the phenomenon seriously is

2199
01:17:52,229 --> 01:17:50,400
is interested in it and uh

2200
01:17:53,590 --> 01:17:52,239
i mean frankly it's to my advantage i

2201
01:17:55,350 --> 01:17:53,600
should stop just i should stop

2202
01:17:58,550 --> 01:17:55,360
encouraging other mainstream media to

2203
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:58,560
have a dig

2204
01:18:02,390 --> 01:18:00,239
the bottom line is it's a such a

2205
01:18:04,390 --> 01:18:02,400
fruitful load i mean i'm totally hooked

2206
01:18:07,430 --> 01:18:04,400
on the subject because it is

2207
01:18:10,070 --> 01:18:07,440
it is blatantly clear to me that that

2208
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:10,080
the um the united states knows a lot

2209
01:18:14,870 --> 01:18:11,040
more

2210
01:18:16,870 --> 01:18:14,880
than it's letting on and i

2211
01:18:19,030 --> 01:18:16,880
i need to understand i'm still trying to

2212
01:18:20,709 --> 01:18:19,040
understand why it's been sitting on this

2213
01:18:22,950 --> 01:18:20,719
information for so long

2214
01:18:24,709 --> 01:18:22,960
because the history shows they've been

2215
01:18:26,550 --> 01:18:24,719
monitoring this phenomenon right back to

2216
01:18:27,990 --> 01:18:26,560
the 1940s and that

2217
01:18:30,149 --> 01:18:28,000
contrary to the message that's been

2218
01:18:32,790 --> 01:18:30,159
given to the public

2219
01:18:33,430 --> 01:18:32,800
it's been taken very seriously indeed

2220
01:18:38,709 --> 01:18:33,440
and

2221
01:18:39,990 --> 01:18:38,719
other official public investigations

2222
01:18:41,669 --> 01:18:40,000
have avowed you know we're not

2223
01:18:43,669 --> 01:18:41,679
interested in this stuff it's just all

2224
01:18:45,830 --> 01:18:43,679
crazy kaka many nonsense

2225
01:18:47,590 --> 01:18:45,840
that's not true that's not true at all

2226
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:47,600
the united states is continuing to

2227
01:18:51,030 --> 01:18:49,440
monitor this phenomenon

2228
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:51,040
they're taking an extremely close

2229
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:53,120
interest in it and

2230
01:18:57,270 --> 01:18:56,480
frankly they should be because whatever

2231
01:18:59,910 --> 01:18:57,280
it is

2232
01:19:02,149 --> 01:18:59,920
is clearly a technology that is vastly

2233
01:19:04,149 --> 01:19:02,159
superior to the technology represented

2234
01:19:07,510 --> 01:19:04,159
by our known physics

2235
01:19:09,590 --> 01:19:07,520
and the good guys should have it i want

2236
01:19:11,910 --> 01:19:09,600
the free world to have it not the crazy

2237
01:19:14,070 --> 01:19:11,920
authoritarian nutters in china russia

2238
01:19:17,270 --> 01:19:14,080
and north korea thanks very much

2239
01:19:18,790 --> 01:19:17,280
and maybe the reason why it's being kept

2240
01:19:20,550 --> 01:19:18,800
secret is because there are good

2241
01:19:21,990 --> 01:19:20,560
national security imperatives for

2242
01:19:25,750 --> 01:19:22,000
keeping it secret

2243
01:19:28,149 --> 01:19:25,760
or maybe just maybe it's because

2244
01:19:29,990 --> 01:19:28,159
a bunch of pentagon generals and

2245
01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:30,000
intelligence officials and various

2246
01:19:34,229 --> 01:19:31,920
people in aerospace

2247
01:19:36,470 --> 01:19:34,239
arrogantly out of hubris decided to keep

2248
01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:36,480
it secret way back during the cold war

2249
01:19:39,910 --> 01:19:37,120
and they've been

2250
01:19:41,110 --> 01:19:39,920
lying about it for so long now they know

2251
01:19:42,790 --> 01:19:41,120
they will get absolutely

2252
01:19:44,709 --> 01:19:42,800
bollocks if they admit to their

2253
01:19:45,990 --> 01:19:44,719
existence of a program so they're trying

2254
01:19:48,310 --> 01:19:46,000
to conceal it

2255
01:19:50,149 --> 01:19:48,320
it's just a house on my part that that's

2256
01:19:52,310 --> 01:19:50,159
the explanation uh

2257
01:19:53,590 --> 01:19:52,320
we're looking at you general mccaslin

2258
01:19:56,229 --> 01:19:53,600
yeah

2259
01:19:57,270 --> 01:19:56,239
russ that is so fascinating can i tell

2260
01:19:58,709 --> 01:19:57,280
you i mean i i

2261
01:20:00,310 --> 01:19:58,719
my understanding is that general

2262
01:20:01,830 --> 01:20:00,320
mccaslin's motivations have been

2263
01:20:05,910 --> 01:20:01,840
entirely honorable

2264
01:20:07,669 --> 01:20:05,920
um if you read and this is the amazing

2265
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:07,679
thing about those wikileaks emails i

2266
01:20:10,950 --> 01:20:08,880
mean they are

2267
01:20:11,990 --> 01:20:10,960
prime source material for a journal like

2268
01:20:13,990 --> 01:20:12,000
me because they are an

2269
01:20:15,750 --> 01:20:14,000
unimpeachable authenticated piece of

2270
01:20:18,390 --> 01:20:15,760
evidence directly

2271
01:20:20,310 --> 01:20:18,400
from the inbox of john podesta you know

2272
01:20:22,950 --> 01:20:20,320
the chief of staff former chief of staff

2273
01:20:25,430 --> 01:20:22,960
for the white house president

2274
01:20:27,590 --> 01:20:25,440
and they show that general neil mccaslin

2275
01:20:29,510 --> 01:20:27,600
prior to the 2016 election

2276
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:29,520
was working with tom delonge of all

2277
01:20:34,070 --> 01:20:31,199
people the punk rocker

2278
01:20:36,149 --> 01:20:34,080
general michael carey from space command

2279
01:20:40,070 --> 01:20:36,159
numerous other serving officers

2280
01:20:41,910 --> 01:20:40,080
in different parts of the air force

2281
01:20:43,750 --> 01:20:41,920
robert weiss or vice i don't know how

2282
01:20:46,390 --> 01:20:43,760
you say his name from lockheed martin

2283
01:20:49,030 --> 01:20:46,400
the chief executive really these are

2284
01:20:50,470 --> 01:20:49,040
really heavy hitters and they were

2285
01:20:53,350 --> 01:20:50,480
collaborating

2286
01:20:55,350 --> 01:20:53,360
on some form of disclosure with hillary

2287
01:20:58,390 --> 01:20:55,360
clinton's campaign manager

2288
01:21:00,870 --> 01:20:58,400
john podesta now

2289
01:21:02,070 --> 01:21:00,880
it's at this point that i start thinking

2290
01:21:05,430 --> 01:21:02,080
my god

2291
01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:05,440
this is huge why is nobody digging into

2292
01:21:08,950 --> 01:21:06,239
this

2293
01:21:09,750 --> 01:21:08,960
hillary clinton's campaign manager was

2294
01:21:12,149 --> 01:21:09,760
talking to

2295
01:21:13,110 --> 01:21:12,159
senior pentagon generals and former

2296
01:21:16,149 --> 01:21:13,120
generals

2297
01:21:18,629 --> 01:21:16,159
and a senior aerospace executive that's

2298
01:21:19,910 --> 01:21:18,639
the company that runs skunk works the

2299
01:21:22,550 --> 01:21:19,920
super secret

2300
01:21:24,629 --> 01:21:22,560
aerospace research facility and they

2301
01:21:26,950 --> 01:21:24,639
were talking about disclosure they were

2302
01:21:29,110 --> 01:21:26,960
talking about revealing something

2303
01:21:31,350 --> 01:21:29,120
to the american public under a hillary

2304
01:21:34,550 --> 01:21:31,360
clinton presidency

2305
01:21:35,030 --> 01:21:34,560
what is going on in american media that

2306
01:21:38,149 --> 01:21:35,040
that

2307
01:21:40,629 --> 01:21:38,159
clinton

2308
01:21:42,550 --> 01:21:40,639
hasn't been door stopped that general

2309
01:21:43,189 --> 01:21:42,560
mccaslin hasn't been questioned about

2310
01:21:45,510 --> 01:21:43,199
this

2311
01:21:46,790 --> 01:21:45,520
why hasn't congress called hearings to

2312
01:21:50,390 --> 01:21:46,800
ask what the

2313
01:21:52,950 --> 01:21:50,400
hell is going on that's to me

2314
01:21:54,470 --> 01:21:52,960
bewildering and and you know it's funny

2315
01:21:56,070 --> 01:21:54,480
as recently as this morning i had an

2316
01:21:59,110 --> 01:21:56,080
email from somebody who said

2317
01:22:01,590 --> 01:21:59,120
this is all rubbish you know you know

2318
01:22:03,510 --> 01:22:01,600
dr eric davis for example has been cited

2319
01:22:05,110 --> 01:22:03,520
by the new york times as knowing about a

2320
01:22:07,030 --> 01:22:05,120
crash retrieval program doesn't know

2321
01:22:09,189 --> 01:22:07,040
what he's talking about he has no inside

2322
01:22:11,189 --> 01:22:09,199
information

2323
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:11,199
and i challenged that person because

2324
01:22:14,470 --> 01:22:12,960
they emailed me as well they copied me

2325
01:22:18,310 --> 01:22:14,480
in onto their email that they sent

2326
01:22:21,270 --> 01:22:18,320
to louis lozando i challenge that person

2327
01:22:24,310 --> 01:22:21,280
who who works at a senior level in

2328
01:22:25,590 --> 01:22:24,320
aerospace or at least purports to put up

2329
01:22:27,110 --> 01:22:25,600
or shut up

2330
01:22:29,430 --> 01:22:27,120
you know the bottom line is people like

2331
01:22:32,229 --> 01:22:29,440
me are going to start asking very hard

2332
01:22:33,830 --> 01:22:32,239
questions because if the public has been

2333
01:22:35,350 --> 01:22:33,840
lied to and that's what we're talking

2334
01:22:36,950 --> 01:22:35,360
about here we're talking about the

2335
01:22:38,950 --> 01:22:36,960
american public

2336
01:22:41,189 --> 01:22:38,960
the world as recently as this most

2337
01:22:43,189 --> 01:22:41,199
recent uap report if it's true that this

2338
01:22:44,470 --> 01:22:43,199
technology is actually in the us and in

2339
01:22:47,110 --> 01:22:44,480
the black

2340
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:47,120
and the us has lied about it and to the

2341
01:22:50,790 --> 01:22:48,960
congress no less and probably to

2342
01:22:53,350 --> 01:22:50,800
presidents no less

2343
01:22:55,189 --> 01:22:53,360
the public's got a right to know unless

2344
01:22:56,629 --> 01:22:55,199
there's a very good reason for keeping

2345
01:22:59,350 --> 01:22:56,639
it secret

2346
01:22:59,669 --> 01:22:59,360
and frankly at the moment you know i've

2347
01:23:04,070 --> 01:22:59,679
seen

2348
01:23:06,149 --> 01:23:04,080
certain journalists on major newspapers

2349
01:23:08,149 --> 01:23:06,159
in the united states led by the nose by

2350
01:23:09,990 --> 01:23:08,159
certain administrations to run

2351
01:23:14,470 --> 01:23:10,000
stories about

2352
01:23:16,229 --> 01:23:14,480
um claims about or should we say

2353
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:16,239
dangerous weapons in iraq and things

2354
01:23:19,669 --> 01:23:17,920
like that you know why does the media

2355
01:23:21,910 --> 01:23:19,679
allow itself to be briefed about

2356
01:23:23,350 --> 01:23:21,920
stories about the iraqis having

2357
01:23:25,590 --> 01:23:23,360
nuclear weapons or

2358
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:25,600
weapons of mass destruction which lead

2359
01:23:29,590 --> 01:23:27,600
us into a massive conflict that's cost

2360
01:23:31,189 --> 01:23:29,600
us all trillions of dollars

2361
01:23:32,790 --> 01:23:31,199
why do they allow themselves to be

2362
01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:32,800
briefed without question

2363
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:35,760
about stories like that and yet there is

2364
01:23:42,390 --> 01:23:36,480
this

2365
01:23:43,910 --> 01:23:42,400
security and national defense media just

2366
01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:43,920
walk past

2367
01:23:47,189 --> 01:23:46,159
where there's just overwhelming evidence

2368
01:23:48,870 --> 01:23:47,199
now to show

2369
01:23:50,870 --> 01:23:48,880
that there is something that is worthy

2370
01:23:53,270 --> 01:23:50,880
of intense investigation

2371
01:23:54,950 --> 01:23:53,280
there is a phenomenon out there a

2372
01:23:57,590 --> 01:23:54,960
technology

2373
01:23:58,550 --> 01:23:57,600
craft vehicles those are the words being

2374
01:24:01,990 --> 01:23:58,560
used

2375
01:24:05,189 --> 01:24:02,000
which are maneuvering at speeds and and

2376
01:24:07,990 --> 01:24:05,199
uh changes in maneuver and

2377
01:24:09,189 --> 01:24:08,000
velocity that are far beyond known human

2378
01:24:11,110 --> 01:24:09,199
technology

2379
01:24:13,990 --> 01:24:11,120
you know apparently beyond our known

2380
01:24:16,870 --> 01:24:14,000
physics but they're real

2381
01:24:18,229 --> 01:24:16,880
and and when you have the skeptics

2382
01:24:21,270 --> 01:24:18,239
asserting that this is

2383
01:24:21,830 --> 01:24:21,280
um just a seagull or something like that

2384
01:24:24,149 --> 01:24:21,840
i know

2385
01:24:26,229 --> 01:24:24,159
because i've spoken to people inside

2386
01:24:28,390 --> 01:24:26,239
these investigations they've excluded

2387
01:24:30,390 --> 01:24:28,400
those prosaic explanations

2388
01:24:32,310 --> 01:24:30,400
you know they don't come out in the ua

2389
01:24:34,870 --> 01:24:32,320
ptf and say oh

2390
01:24:35,669 --> 01:24:34,880
we we don't have an explanation for this

2391
01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:35,679
um

2392
01:24:38,709 --> 01:24:37,199
but you know it may still be a seagull

2393
01:24:39,590 --> 01:24:38,719
or it might still be a reflection of a

2394
01:24:41,669 --> 01:24:39,600
cockpit window

2395
01:24:43,750 --> 01:24:41,679
they've looked at those explanations

2396
01:24:43,990 --> 01:24:43,760
these things are tracked on radar that

2397
01:24:46,550 --> 01:24:44,000
been

2398
01:24:50,070 --> 01:24:46,560
tracked on multiple sensor systems we're

2399
01:24:53,590 --> 01:24:50,080
kind of beyond those silly arguments now

2400
01:24:56,709 --> 01:24:53,600
and what worries me is it will be

2401
01:24:59,110 --> 01:24:56,719
so easy for

2402
01:25:00,870 --> 01:24:59,120
somebody who wants this kept quiet to

2403
01:25:02,790 --> 01:25:00,880
put it back in a black box again

2404
01:25:04,550 --> 01:25:02,800
for another 30 or 40 years before

2405
01:25:05,350 --> 01:25:04,560
there's another ryan sprague and ross

2406
01:25:08,870 --> 01:25:05,360
called out

2407
01:25:11,830 --> 01:25:08,880
asking questions about it um because

2408
01:25:13,430 --> 01:25:11,840
the media allows itself to be led it

2409
01:25:15,189 --> 01:25:13,440
allowed itself to be led with a

2410
01:25:18,709 --> 01:25:15,199
deceitful claim about

2411
01:25:21,430 --> 01:25:18,719
weapons of mass destruction in iraq so

2412
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:21,440
maybe it's time to start asking the hard

2413
01:25:25,270 --> 01:25:22,239
questions that

2414
01:25:30,149 --> 01:25:25,280
good people like tim mcmillan uh

2415
01:25:32,629 --> 01:25:30,159
mj bonaires oh you know the politico

2416
01:25:34,870 --> 01:25:32,639
brian bender new york times leslie keane

2417
01:25:36,629 --> 01:25:34,880
elaine cooper ralph blumenthal

2418
01:25:38,149 --> 01:25:36,639
these people need to be supported and

2419
01:25:39,669 --> 01:25:38,159
encouraged in their investigative

2420
01:25:40,070 --> 01:25:39,679
journalism because they're cracking

2421
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:40,080
stuff

2422
01:25:43,990 --> 01:25:42,719
open that frankly the rest of the media

2423
01:25:46,390 --> 01:25:44,000
needs to start asking

2424
01:25:47,830 --> 01:25:46,400
questions about tom rogan another one he

2425
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:47,840
wrote a great piece the other day from

2426
01:25:53,430 --> 01:25:49,920
the washington examiner

2427
01:25:55,350 --> 01:25:53,440
it's time to start pushing and asking

2428
01:25:56,709 --> 01:25:55,360
and needling and and

2429
01:25:58,149 --> 01:25:56,719
you know part of investigative

2430
01:26:00,390 --> 01:25:58,159
journalism i've worked on stories in

2431
01:26:03,590 --> 01:26:00,400
some cases for 10 years

2432
01:26:06,390 --> 01:26:03,600
prodding you know collecting data

2433
01:26:06,790 --> 01:26:06,400
all it requires is a conscious switching

2434
01:26:09,350 --> 01:26:06,800
on

2435
01:26:11,510 --> 01:26:09,360
an engagement but the current

2436
01:26:13,590 --> 01:26:11,520
disengagement that dominates much of the

2437
01:26:15,270 --> 01:26:13,600
media i just think is disgraceful

2438
01:26:17,669 --> 01:26:15,280
it's really dropping the ball with what

2439
01:26:21,110 --> 01:26:17,679
i think is possibly

2440
01:26:24,229 --> 01:26:21,120
the premier national security story

2441
01:26:27,030 --> 01:26:24,239
of the moment because there is

2442
01:26:28,629 --> 01:26:27,040
definitely right if not of all time ross

2443
01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:28,639
i'm sorry to interrupt but

2444
01:26:32,229 --> 01:26:30,880
yeah and that that story could take

2445
01:26:35,270 --> 01:26:32,239
decades to fully

2446
01:26:37,189 --> 01:26:35,280
unravel and tell but like you said if if

2447
01:26:39,110 --> 01:26:37,199
journalists aren't willing to go there

2448
01:26:41,669 --> 01:26:39,120
and they continue to be led

2449
01:26:43,189 --> 01:26:41,679
uh those who don't want the story out

2450
01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:43,199
are ultimately gonna win

2451
01:26:46,470 --> 01:26:45,280
so i think you're right i think the more

2452
01:26:49,270 --> 01:26:46,480
we pressure

2453
01:26:49,669 --> 01:26:49,280
uh both the mainstream media and um you

2454
01:26:51,990 --> 01:26:49,679
know

2455
01:26:53,669 --> 01:26:52,000
journalists who haven't been willing to

2456
01:26:57,189 --> 01:26:53,679
look at this topic to just

2457
01:26:57,669 --> 01:26:57,199
look at it question it but but i also

2458
01:27:00,950 --> 01:26:57,679
think

2459
01:27:02,229 --> 01:27:00,960
social media feel quite powerless you

2460
01:27:03,750 --> 01:27:02,239
know they get frustrated with people

2461
01:27:04,950 --> 01:27:03,760
like me because i'm not immediately

2462
01:27:06,229 --> 01:27:04,960
yelling from the rooftops

2463
01:27:09,270 --> 01:27:06,239
there's aliens in the white house

2464
01:27:11,189 --> 01:27:09,280
basement or something but um

2465
01:27:12,310 --> 01:27:11,199
what people don't realize is the power

2466
01:27:14,310 --> 01:27:12,320
they have

2467
01:27:15,910 --> 01:27:14,320
you know everybody needs to start

2468
01:27:16,550 --> 01:27:15,920
writing letters to their congressman or

2469
01:27:19,189 --> 01:27:16,560
their senator

2470
01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:19,199
they need to you know ask questions of

2471
01:27:23,110 --> 01:27:20,880
the air force and the defense department

2472
01:27:24,390 --> 01:27:23,120
you as a citizen are empowered to ask

2473
01:27:26,470 --> 01:27:24,400
these questions

2474
01:27:28,070 --> 01:27:26,480
the moment the military starts realizing

2475
01:27:29,910 --> 01:27:28,080
that it's losing the capacity to

2476
01:27:31,669 --> 01:27:29,920
suppress this story and they are

2477
01:27:33,910 --> 01:27:31,679
now it's the thing that amuses me about

2478
01:27:36,470 --> 01:27:33,920
this is i've never seen such

2479
01:27:38,149 --> 01:27:36,480
blatant attempts to shut down the story

2480
01:27:39,910 --> 01:27:38,159
i mean the way the u.s air force has

2481
01:27:42,229 --> 01:27:39,920
behaved over the years in the australian

2482
01:27:44,149 --> 01:27:42,239
national archives files from our

2483
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:44,159
department of defense when the westall

2484
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:46,080
case happened in 1966

2485
01:27:50,229 --> 01:27:48,480
in australia officials from our

2486
01:27:51,669 --> 01:27:50,239
government went around probably at the

2487
01:27:53,270 --> 01:27:51,679
instigation of the americans

2488
01:27:55,350 --> 01:27:53,280
essentially shutting down and

2489
01:27:58,550 --> 01:27:55,360
threatening people who'd seen

2490
01:28:01,430 --> 01:27:58,560
what were clearly disc shaped lenticular

2491
01:28:03,430 --> 01:28:01,440
metallic objects doing crazy things over

2492
01:28:06,550 --> 01:28:03,440
a school in suburban melbourne

2493
01:28:08,709 --> 01:28:06,560
now that happened 55 years ago and the

2494
01:28:10,709 --> 01:28:08,719
secret's largely been kept for half a

2495
01:28:13,030 --> 01:28:10,719
century plus

2496
01:28:13,990 --> 01:28:13,040
somebody out there is going around

2497
01:28:17,830 --> 01:28:14,000
shutting down this

2498
01:28:20,070 --> 01:28:17,840
story and frankly

2499
01:28:22,149 --> 01:28:20,080
you you can't be afraid of this stuff i

2500
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:22,159
mean i've i've been i've done stories on

2501
01:28:26,390 --> 01:28:24,239
bikey gangs and what you call them

2502
01:28:27,990 --> 01:28:26,400
outlaw motorcycle biker gangs in the

2503
01:28:32,310 --> 01:28:28,000
united states and we've been threatened

2504
01:28:34,790 --> 01:28:32,320
many many times if there is a genuine

2505
01:28:36,149 --> 01:28:34,800
national security reason why this story

2506
01:28:38,950 --> 01:28:36,159
should not be told

2507
01:28:39,750 --> 01:28:38,960
it's time to tell it you know tell

2508
01:28:43,270 --> 01:28:39,760
people like me

2509
01:28:46,629 --> 01:28:43,280
why it shouldn't be covered because

2510
01:28:47,750 --> 01:28:46,639
if not we're coming after you like a dog

2511
01:28:50,229 --> 01:28:47,760
on a bone

2512
01:28:51,910 --> 01:28:50,239
we really are because it's a great yarn

2513
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:51,920
it's a ripping yarn

2514
01:28:56,149 --> 01:28:53,360
and it's funny because i think i

2515
01:28:57,990 --> 01:28:56,159
mentioned i've had phone calls from um

2516
01:28:59,910 --> 01:28:58,000
journo friends of mine i'm a member of a

2517
01:29:03,669 --> 01:28:59,920
group in washington dc

2518
01:29:05,590 --> 01:29:03,679
called icij the international

2519
01:29:07,590 --> 01:29:05,600
consortium of investigative journalists

2520
01:29:11,110 --> 01:29:07,600
and we collaborate on stories

2521
01:29:12,310 --> 01:29:11,120
like the panama papers or dirty tobacco

2522
01:29:14,870 --> 01:29:12,320
companies

2523
01:29:16,310 --> 01:29:14,880
and some of the journos from that group

2524
01:29:17,350 --> 01:29:16,320
have been contacting me because they've

2525
01:29:20,550 --> 01:29:17,360
heard about my book

2526
01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:20,560
and they're not too pulling it

2527
01:29:23,830 --> 01:29:22,000
they're actually really interested there

2528
01:29:25,830 --> 01:29:23,840
was a spanish journalist who contacted

2529
01:29:27,350 --> 01:29:25,840
me last week who basically said oh

2530
01:29:29,110 --> 01:29:27,360
you might want to know about this you

2531
01:29:32,149 --> 01:29:29,120
know and people are

2532
01:29:36,070 --> 01:29:32,159
really keen to know more and

2533
01:29:38,390 --> 01:29:36,080
i think we're on the cusp of

2534
01:29:40,149 --> 01:29:38,400
more revelations because national media

2535
01:29:41,910 --> 01:29:40,159
are now starting to wake up and become

2536
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:41,920
aware to the issue

2537
01:29:45,350 --> 01:29:44,639
but everybody out there you believe you

2538
01:29:47,750 --> 01:29:45,360
people

2539
01:29:50,229 --> 01:29:47,760
gotta start asking questions and probing

2540
01:29:52,310 --> 01:29:50,239
and demanding your rights

2541
01:29:54,149 --> 01:29:52,320
you know you write to your congressman

2542
01:29:56,229 --> 01:29:54,159
shake the cage of the senator you see in

2543
01:29:58,390 --> 01:29:56,239
the airport and basically say senator

2544
01:30:02,149 --> 01:29:58,400
the issue i want you to represent me on

2545
01:30:04,310 --> 01:30:02,159
is what's the story with ufos uaps

2546
01:30:06,790 --> 01:30:04,320
and if they giggle ask them why are they

2547
01:30:09,270 --> 01:30:06,800
giggling why the nervous titter

2548
01:30:10,950 --> 01:30:09,280
it has to be taken seriously because you

2549
01:30:12,950 --> 01:30:10,960
know the ridicule the stigma

2550
01:30:14,470 --> 01:30:12,960
the taboo that's been attached to the

2551
01:30:17,669 --> 01:30:14,480
subject for

2552
01:30:19,030 --> 01:30:17,679
50 years again i'm sorry i keep on

2553
01:30:21,270 --> 01:30:19,040
jumping on things but

2554
01:30:22,550 --> 01:30:21,280
what i find fascinating i'm a historian

2555
01:30:24,870 --> 01:30:22,560
by background and i

2556
01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:24,880
i love the history of this that back in

2557
01:30:28,550 --> 01:30:26,639
the 1950s

2558
01:30:30,550 --> 01:30:28,560
the people who were championing the

2559
01:30:32,870 --> 01:30:30,560
transparency and the release of what the

2560
01:30:35,590 --> 01:30:32,880
us air force actually knew

2561
01:30:36,070 --> 01:30:35,600
were people in the u.s air force people

2562
01:30:38,470 --> 01:30:36,080
in

2563
01:30:40,709 --> 01:30:38,480
the u.s navy people like um admiral

2564
01:30:42,070 --> 01:30:40,719
roscoe hillenkotter your former director

2565
01:30:44,390 --> 01:30:42,080
of the cia

2566
01:30:46,550 --> 01:30:44,400
a hero of pearl harbor a former

2567
01:30:48,629 --> 01:30:46,560
commander of the uss missouri

2568
01:30:51,270 --> 01:30:48,639
i mean these were heavy hitters in your

2569
01:30:51,910 --> 01:30:51,280
military speaking publicly in the 1950s

2570
01:30:53,910 --> 01:30:51,920
and

2571
01:30:55,830 --> 01:30:53,920
right through to the 1960s basically

2572
01:30:57,430 --> 01:30:55,840
agitating for more openness and

2573
01:30:59,350 --> 01:30:57,440
transparency about what the us

2574
01:31:01,990 --> 01:30:59,360
government knew about this phenomenon

2575
01:31:02,709 --> 01:31:02,000
because they acknowledged it was real

2576
01:31:04,629 --> 01:31:02,719
and then

2577
01:31:05,910 --> 01:31:04,639
around about 50 years ago at the end of

2578
01:31:08,550 --> 01:31:05,920
the 1960s

2579
01:31:10,950 --> 01:31:08,560
i suspect for more cold war reasons

2580
01:31:14,149 --> 01:31:10,960
because of the imperative of confronting

2581
01:31:15,750 --> 01:31:14,159
authoritarian communism we shut it down

2582
01:31:17,910 --> 01:31:15,760
you know the decision was made to shut

2583
01:31:20,070 --> 01:31:17,920
it down and it may very well be a

2584
01:31:22,229 --> 01:31:20,080
well-motivated decision

2585
01:31:23,590 --> 01:31:22,239
but we're 30 years on now from the end

2586
01:31:25,910 --> 01:31:23,600
of the cold war

2587
01:31:28,390 --> 01:31:25,920
and it's painfully obvious that there's

2588
01:31:31,750 --> 01:31:28,400
an incredible story there to be told

2589
01:31:34,149 --> 01:31:31,760
and the genie is out of the bottle yeah

2590
01:31:36,149 --> 01:31:34,159
no putting it back in i love that ross

2591
01:31:38,470 --> 01:31:36,159
um well hey i've got a few

2592
01:31:40,149 --> 01:31:38,480
listener questions if you're willing um

2593
01:31:41,270 --> 01:31:40,159
i could fire these off for you how much

2594
01:31:44,070 --> 01:31:41,280
time do you have

2595
01:31:45,110 --> 01:31:44,080
okay maybe 10 or 15 i've i might i

2596
01:31:48,149 --> 01:31:45,120
promised my wife

2597
01:31:51,990 --> 01:31:48,159
i'd do something on this beautiful day

2598
01:31:56,550 --> 01:31:55,030
we have whales in the bay at the moment

2599
01:31:58,070 --> 01:31:56,560
last night with a gin and tonic and we

2600
01:32:01,110 --> 01:31:58,080
were watching dolphins

2601
01:32:03,270 --> 01:32:01,120
cavorting in the bay and unfortunately

2602
01:32:04,390 --> 01:32:03,280
the water is very very cold but uh i'm a

2603
01:32:06,310 --> 01:32:04,400
very keen uh

2604
01:32:08,229 --> 01:32:06,320
scuba diver and snorkeler and i wish i

2605
01:32:10,629 --> 01:32:08,239
could get out here wow

2606
01:32:11,510 --> 01:32:10,639
hey well you're talking to the guy stuck

2607
01:32:13,590 --> 01:32:11,520
in his little

2608
01:32:15,590 --> 01:32:13,600
closet of an apartment in new york so

2609
01:32:17,189 --> 01:32:15,600
i'm definitely jealous but

2610
01:32:19,110 --> 01:32:17,199
i'll go ahead i'll just fire some of

2611
01:32:21,669 --> 01:32:19,120
these off for you here um

2612
01:32:23,750 --> 01:32:21,679
so uh our first two questions come from

2613
01:32:24,550 --> 01:32:23,760
our our patreon subscribers they have

2614
01:32:27,189 --> 01:32:24,560
priority

2615
01:32:29,270 --> 01:32:27,199
to ask questions here so simon actually

2616
01:32:30,950 --> 01:32:29,280
from australia wanted to know ross

2617
01:32:32,629 --> 01:32:30,960
what are your thoughts on the min min

2618
01:32:34,950 --> 01:32:32,639
lights i know this is a big

2619
01:32:35,669 --> 01:32:34,960
phenomenon in australia um is this

2620
01:32:37,750 --> 01:32:35,679
something

2621
01:32:40,310 --> 01:32:37,760
you've looked into heavily or have

2622
01:32:41,910 --> 01:32:40,320
people reported these to you personally

2623
01:32:44,229 --> 01:32:41,920
yeah look the minman lights are a

2624
01:32:45,830 --> 01:32:44,239
phenomenon that european settlers first

2625
01:32:48,149 --> 01:32:45,840
started noticing when they came

2626
01:32:49,430 --> 01:32:48,159
to australia and they were reported in a

2627
01:32:50,870 --> 01:32:49,440
town called minmin

2628
01:32:53,030 --> 01:32:50,880
which i think is over in far north

2629
01:32:55,030 --> 01:32:53,040
queensland or to the northern territory

2630
01:32:56,629 --> 01:32:55,040
so they became known as min min lights

2631
01:32:58,950 --> 01:32:56,639
but basically they've been part of the

2632
01:33:00,790 --> 01:32:58,960
aboriginal dreamtime stories the oral

2633
01:33:02,950 --> 01:33:00,800
history of our aboriginal

2634
01:33:04,790 --> 01:33:02,960
indigenous people for many many

2635
01:33:08,550 --> 01:33:04,800
thousands of years

2636
01:33:11,350 --> 01:33:08,560
and i was privileged once to be um

2637
01:33:13,350 --> 01:33:11,360
in the gulf of carpentaria way way up in

2638
01:33:15,270 --> 01:33:13,360
far north queensland with

2639
01:33:16,790 --> 01:33:15,280
a beautiful aboriginal man who has since

2640
01:33:20,310 --> 01:33:16,800
passed god rest his soul

2641
01:33:23,590 --> 01:33:20,320
called black bob and black bob was

2642
01:33:25,910 --> 01:33:23,600
this fantastic wise aboriginal elder

2643
01:33:27,510 --> 01:33:25,920
who was working with a mining company

2644
01:33:30,790 --> 01:33:27,520
advising them on where they

2645
01:33:33,189 --> 01:33:30,800
couldn't dig to protect sacred sites

2646
01:33:34,950 --> 01:33:33,199
aboriginal sacred sites and the

2647
01:33:36,709 --> 01:33:34,960
helicopter pilot explained to me that

2648
01:33:38,310 --> 01:33:36,719
black bob was incredible because

2649
01:33:40,310 --> 01:33:38,320
he didn't need to use his gps to

2650
01:33:41,669 --> 01:33:40,320
navigate he'd just sit there with black

2651
01:33:43,510 --> 01:33:41,679
bob and black bob

2652
01:33:46,070 --> 01:33:43,520
because of the oral history in his head

2653
01:33:47,910 --> 01:33:46,080
could navigate across the landscape

2654
01:33:49,430 --> 01:33:47,920
because he had the map in his head like

2655
01:33:49,990 --> 01:33:49,440
he could feel his way across the

2656
01:33:51,270 --> 01:33:50,000
landscape

2657
01:33:53,590 --> 01:33:51,280
and we sat with him and watched him

2658
01:33:56,950 --> 01:33:53,600
doing it it was breathtaking

2659
01:34:00,790 --> 01:33:56,960
and we stopped for the day

2660
01:34:01,590 --> 01:34:00,800
uh in an oasis a beautiful bushy area

2661
01:34:03,270 --> 01:34:01,600
with a

2662
01:34:04,790 --> 01:34:03,280
big pool and we all had a swim was a

2663
01:34:07,270 --> 01:34:04,800
very hot day and

2664
01:34:08,149 --> 01:34:07,280
i sat by the side of the creek with

2665
01:34:11,189 --> 01:34:08,159
black bob and

2666
01:34:12,870 --> 01:34:11,199
um i asked him i said oh have you ever

2667
01:34:13,189 --> 01:34:12,880
seen them in midnight sneak with oh look

2668
01:34:16,629 --> 01:34:13,199
i'm

2669
01:34:18,390 --> 01:34:16,639
all the time and uh and i said

2670
01:34:20,870 --> 01:34:18,400
what do you make of them i said i know

2671
01:34:22,070 --> 01:34:20,880
on the um public broadcaster recently

2672
01:34:23,990 --> 01:34:22,080
there's been um

2673
01:34:25,830 --> 01:34:24,000
speculation that their truck headlights

2674
01:34:28,149 --> 01:34:25,840
are refracting off um

2675
01:34:29,189 --> 01:34:28,159
reflecting off uh moisture in the uh in

2676
01:34:30,950 --> 01:34:29,199
the air

2677
01:34:32,709 --> 01:34:30,960
and he laughed he tipped his head back

2678
01:34:33,990 --> 01:34:32,719
and he went oh that very funny very

2679
01:34:35,830 --> 01:34:34,000
funny he said

2680
01:34:38,950 --> 01:34:35,840
i don't recall too many trucks around

2681
01:34:42,070 --> 01:34:38,960
here 3000 years ago

2682
01:34:43,350 --> 01:34:42,080
and you know one of the things that's

2683
01:34:45,430 --> 01:34:43,360
quite awesome when you meet these

2684
01:34:47,910 --> 01:34:45,440
aboriginal elders is they just have a

2685
01:34:49,830 --> 01:34:47,920
completely different sense of space and

2686
01:34:51,350 --> 01:34:49,840
time you know and their oral history

2687
01:34:53,590 --> 01:34:51,360
really does it goes back

2688
01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:53,600
thousands and thousands of years and it

2689
01:34:55,830 --> 01:34:55,440
was quite breathtaking because the same

2690
01:34:58,390 --> 01:34:55,840
guy

2691
01:35:00,310 --> 01:34:58,400
who could accurately pinpoint literally

2692
01:35:01,830 --> 01:35:00,320
to within a meter

2693
01:35:03,990 --> 01:35:01,840
points that were sacred sides to our

2694
01:35:05,430 --> 01:35:04,000
aborigines to the fury

2695
01:35:07,270 --> 01:35:05,440
privately of the mining company were

2696
01:35:08,470 --> 01:35:07,280
often places that were full of minerals

2697
01:35:12,550 --> 01:35:08,480
and special

2698
01:35:14,870 --> 01:35:12,560
you know valuable uh metals

2699
01:35:16,310 --> 01:35:14,880
he knew them in his head and he also

2700
01:35:17,750 --> 01:35:16,320
knew the oral history and so these

2701
01:35:21,510 --> 01:35:17,760
minman lights have been seen

2702
01:35:23,270 --> 01:35:21,520
all over australia for many many tens of

2703
01:35:25,030 --> 01:35:23,280
thousands of years and they

2704
01:35:26,470 --> 01:35:25,040
they're a long part of the australian

2705
01:35:28,790 --> 01:35:26,480
oral history so yeah

2706
01:35:30,629 --> 01:35:28,800
i get into that into my book quite a bit

2707
01:35:32,950 --> 01:35:30,639
oh interesting okay good that's

2708
01:35:34,870 --> 01:35:32,960
that's cool it reminds me so much of the

2709
01:35:35,590 --> 01:35:34,880
the spook lights here in the united

2710
01:35:37,350 --> 01:35:35,600
states or

2711
01:35:39,750 --> 01:35:37,360
even the you know the early foo fighter

2712
01:35:42,310 --> 01:35:39,760
phenomenon as well but um

2713
01:35:42,950 --> 01:35:42,320
michael another um one of our australian

2714
01:35:45,030 --> 01:35:42,960
listeners

2715
01:35:47,830 --> 01:35:45,040
wanted to know does the australian

2716
01:35:50,709 --> 01:35:47,840
government have any type of disclosure

2717
01:35:53,030 --> 01:35:50,719
investigation like the us is doing or

2718
01:35:54,950 --> 01:35:53,040
anything like that ross

2719
01:35:56,470 --> 01:35:54,960
look i've asked at a very very high

2720
01:35:59,590 --> 01:35:56,480
level both former

2721
01:36:00,229 --> 01:35:59,600
and serving senior officials and

2722
01:36:03,430 --> 01:36:00,239
ministers

2723
01:36:06,229 --> 01:36:03,440
in our government and um the

2724
01:36:08,310 --> 01:36:06,239
uh the simple fact is that we are a bit

2725
01:36:09,510 --> 01:36:08,320
of a loyal lickspittle to our american

2726
01:36:11,270 --> 01:36:09,520
ally i'm afraid

2727
01:36:12,790 --> 01:36:11,280
that the americans do all the driving on

2728
01:36:14,390 --> 01:36:12,800
this i mean

2729
01:36:17,270 --> 01:36:14,400
when i found out about things that have

2730
01:36:18,629 --> 01:36:17,280
been seen at pine gap which is the super

2731
01:36:20,629 --> 01:36:18,639
secret

2732
01:36:22,790 --> 01:36:20,639
american joint american facility with

2733
01:36:25,109 --> 01:36:22,800
australia in the middle of australia

2734
01:36:27,350 --> 01:36:25,119
i found out about what was going there

2735
01:36:28,629 --> 01:36:27,360
from americans first

2736
01:36:30,070 --> 01:36:28,639
before i found out about it from

2737
01:36:31,109 --> 01:36:30,080
australians and then when i asked the

2738
01:36:32,790 --> 01:36:31,119
australians about it

2739
01:36:34,950 --> 01:36:32,800
they all went oh the yanks told you

2740
01:36:37,189 --> 01:36:34,960
about that did they yeah yeah well yeah

2741
01:36:38,790 --> 01:36:37,199
yeah that did happen yeah and

2742
01:36:39,510 --> 01:36:38,800
essentially what was described to me was

2743
01:36:43,030 --> 01:36:39,520
that were these

2744
01:36:45,830 --> 01:36:43,040
orbs that were seen hovering

2745
01:36:46,310 --> 01:36:45,840
around a security perimeter and and

2746
01:36:48,310 --> 01:36:46,320
indeed

2747
01:36:49,590 --> 01:36:48,320
inside some buildings at the pine gap

2748
01:36:51,990 --> 01:36:49,600
facility

2749
01:36:53,109 --> 01:36:52,000
and they caused a security concern and

2750
01:36:55,109 --> 01:36:53,119
they were never

2751
01:36:56,229 --> 01:36:55,119
investigated they were alerted to the

2752
01:36:58,390 --> 01:36:56,239
americans but

2753
01:36:59,990 --> 01:36:58,400
nothing ever really came of it but the

2754
01:37:01,590 --> 01:37:00,000
irony was i was told about that from

2755
01:37:02,790 --> 01:37:01,600
somebody in america who said oh yeah

2756
01:37:04,629 --> 01:37:02,800
there was this incident that you're a

2757
01:37:06,790 --> 01:37:04,639
pine gap base and i went

2758
01:37:08,310 --> 01:37:06,800
oh really yeah and then when i finally

2759
01:37:09,510 --> 01:37:08,320
went and spoke to my defense sources

2760
01:37:11,669 --> 01:37:09,520
about it they went oh

2761
01:37:12,629 --> 01:37:11,679
that one yes yes now i can talk to you

2762
01:37:14,470 --> 01:37:12,639
about that

2763
01:37:15,910 --> 01:37:14,480
and that often happens here in australia

2764
01:37:17,750 --> 01:37:15,920
is that we are

2765
01:37:19,270 --> 01:37:17,760
possibly a little too craven in our

2766
01:37:20,870 --> 01:37:19,280
loyalty to the americans and

2767
01:37:23,270 --> 01:37:20,880
unquestioning about what

2768
01:37:24,870 --> 01:37:23,280
is seen and what is done and you know

2769
01:37:26,790 --> 01:37:24,880
we've followed you into every war since

2770
01:37:27,910 --> 01:37:26,800
world war one and we're very stalwart

2771
01:37:29,590 --> 01:37:27,920
and loyal allies

2772
01:37:32,790 --> 01:37:29,600
as a journalist i've been a beneficiary

2773
01:37:34,310 --> 01:37:32,800
of that being embedded with american and

2774
01:37:35,910 --> 01:37:34,320
australian troops and different war

2775
01:37:39,590 --> 01:37:35,920
zones around the world but

2776
01:37:41,189 --> 01:37:39,600
one of the problems is um uh

2777
01:37:42,870 --> 01:37:41,199
it sometimes means we don't ask enough

2778
01:37:45,910 --> 01:37:42,880
questions and uh

2779
01:37:47,990 --> 01:37:45,920
i think there is a level of in-curiosity

2780
01:37:50,550 --> 01:37:48,000
in our government about this phenomenon

2781
01:37:54,550 --> 01:37:50,560
that boils down to resources

2782
01:37:56,550 --> 01:37:54,560
but way back in the 1970s and i i gave

2783
01:37:58,149 --> 01:37:56,560
this some publicity a few weeks ago i

2784
01:38:00,709 --> 01:37:58,159
talked about harry turner

2785
01:38:02,149 --> 01:38:00,719
who's a former physics professor from

2786
01:38:04,790 --> 01:38:02,159
melbourne university who

2787
01:38:06,310 --> 01:38:04,800
was eventually hired by the defense

2788
01:38:07,750 --> 01:38:06,320
department and he became a very

2789
01:38:10,870 --> 01:38:07,760
prominent

2790
01:38:14,310 --> 01:38:10,880
defence scientist in australia and

2791
01:38:17,750 --> 01:38:14,320
he as a young man witnessed his own

2792
01:38:20,390 --> 01:38:17,760
uaps ufos at the maralinga and wuemera

2793
01:38:22,629 --> 01:38:20,400
test ranges and he became a staunch

2794
01:38:24,550 --> 01:38:22,639
advocate for transparency and openness

2795
01:38:27,669 --> 01:38:24,560
and he was very very skeptical there's a

2796
01:38:29,350 --> 01:38:27,679
jio a joint intelligence

2797
01:38:31,270 --> 01:38:29,360
organization which is an australian

2798
01:38:33,270 --> 01:38:31,280
intelligence service report

2799
01:38:34,709 --> 01:38:33,280
that's declassified on the australian

2800
01:38:36,149 --> 01:38:34,719
national archives that i was talking

2801
01:38:38,229 --> 01:38:36,159
about a few weeks ago and it got a bit

2802
01:38:40,310 --> 01:38:38,239
of publicity on the web since

2803
01:38:41,910 --> 01:38:40,320
where harry talks openly about the fact

2804
01:38:43,669 --> 01:38:41,920
that he thinks the americans aren't

2805
01:38:45,350 --> 01:38:43,679
revealing all they know

2806
01:38:47,109 --> 01:38:45,360
and this is 50 years ago you know and he

2807
01:38:47,910 --> 01:38:47,119
was frustratedly telling his bosses in

2808
01:38:49,830 --> 01:38:47,920
the defense

2809
01:38:51,590 --> 01:38:49,840
science technology organization that

2810
01:38:53,830 --> 01:38:51,600
there should be some kind of

2811
01:38:56,229 --> 01:38:53,840
rapid deployment unit that can go and

2812
01:38:58,870 --> 01:38:56,239
investigate ufo sightings

2813
01:39:00,950 --> 01:38:58,880
and he spoke to my good friend and

2814
01:39:03,669 --> 01:39:00,960
colleague bill chalker a prominent

2815
01:39:05,270 --> 01:39:03,679
ufo researcher about the frustrations

2816
01:39:05,910 --> 01:39:05,280
that he had inside the defense

2817
01:39:08,070 --> 01:39:05,920
department

2818
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:08,080
about getting to the bottom of this

2819
01:39:12,870 --> 01:39:09,760
issue and trying to encourage his

2820
01:39:14,790 --> 01:39:12,880
masters his superiors to

2821
01:39:17,510 --> 01:39:14,800
allow a more rigorous investigation of

2822
01:39:20,629 --> 01:39:17,520
ufos and and the analysis that he wrote

2823
01:39:22,629 --> 01:39:20,639
basically suggested that um from his

2824
01:39:24,709 --> 01:39:22,639
sources in us intelligence and defense

2825
01:39:26,470 --> 01:39:24,719
he believed the us was working on

2826
01:39:28,229 --> 01:39:26,480
secret technology in the black on

2827
01:39:30,149 --> 01:39:28,239
anti-gravity and that

2828
01:39:31,990 --> 01:39:30,159
it wasn't being entirely candid with its

2829
01:39:34,470 --> 01:39:32,000
australian ally

2830
01:39:36,470 --> 01:39:34,480
and frankly let's be honest about it i

2831
01:39:37,750 --> 01:39:36,480
wouldn't be either if i was america you

2832
01:39:40,229 --> 01:39:37,760
know if i've got

2833
01:39:41,430 --> 01:39:40,239
technology which is just mind-blowing in

2834
01:39:43,669 --> 01:39:41,440
its implications

2835
01:39:45,750 --> 01:39:43,679
i'd be sitting on it too i'd be trying

2836
01:39:47,430 --> 01:39:45,760
to develop it in the black and

2837
01:39:48,950 --> 01:39:47,440
you know maybe if they were testing it

2838
01:39:49,910 --> 01:39:48,960
in north west cape then maybe they were

2839
01:39:51,830 --> 01:39:49,920
doing it without the

2840
01:39:54,390 --> 01:39:51,840
the awareness of the australians because

2841
01:39:55,510 --> 01:39:54,400
i've i've asked believe me i've asked

2842
01:39:57,669 --> 01:39:55,520
and

2843
01:39:58,629 --> 01:39:57,679
one very senior official from that era

2844
01:40:01,109 --> 01:39:58,639
told me ross

2845
01:40:02,390 --> 01:40:01,119
if if they were testing technology up in

2846
01:40:05,350 --> 01:40:02,400
northwest cape

2847
01:40:08,310 --> 01:40:05,360
propulsion systems craft it wasn't done

2848
01:40:10,790 --> 01:40:08,320
with our permission

2849
01:40:12,629 --> 01:40:10,800
and and the person i spoke to very very

2850
01:40:16,070 --> 01:40:12,639
senior said to me

2851
01:40:18,070 --> 01:40:16,080
and we've had our suspicions um yeah

2852
01:40:20,470 --> 01:40:18,080
that again that reminds me so much of

2853
01:40:22,390 --> 01:40:20,480
the rendorsham forest incident

2854
01:40:24,310 --> 01:40:22,400
where you know the united states was

2855
01:40:26,470 --> 01:40:24,320
housing nuclear ordinance

2856
01:40:27,669 --> 01:40:26,480
on a joint military base without

2857
01:40:30,070 --> 01:40:27,679
britain's knowledge

2858
01:40:31,030 --> 01:40:30,080
you know these are things the u.s does

2859
01:40:32,950 --> 01:40:31,040
for

2860
01:40:34,229 --> 01:40:32,960
i would assume a contingency of some

2861
01:40:36,470 --> 01:40:34,239
sort but

2862
01:40:38,470 --> 01:40:36,480
it it it frustrates me too ross because

2863
01:40:40,790 --> 01:40:38,480
you have something like the five eyes

2864
01:40:41,830 --> 01:40:40,800
alliance that you've mentioned as well

2865
01:40:44,310 --> 01:40:41,840
where um

2866
01:40:45,669 --> 01:40:44,320
you would hope that this intelligence

2867
01:40:47,510 --> 01:40:45,679
was being shared

2868
01:40:49,910 --> 01:40:47,520
and these programs are being shared with

2869
01:40:51,750 --> 01:40:49,920
the allies with australia with britain

2870
01:40:53,590 --> 01:40:51,760
and our other allies as well yet

2871
01:40:54,790 --> 01:40:53,600
here we are with the united states

2872
01:40:56,950 --> 01:40:54,800
constantly

2873
01:40:57,830 --> 01:40:56,960
still in the black and lying to these

2874
01:41:00,629 --> 01:40:57,840
nations where

2875
01:41:01,590 --> 01:41:00,639
supposedly you know in cahoots with if

2876
01:41:05,270 --> 01:41:01,600
you want to

2877
01:41:08,629 --> 01:41:05,280
but i've spoken to people in uh defence

2878
01:41:09,109 --> 01:41:08,639
intelligence who tell me that they have

2879
01:41:12,390 --> 01:41:09,119
become

2880
01:41:14,470 --> 01:41:12,400
incidentally aware of

2881
01:41:16,470 --> 01:41:14,480
the interest that the united states has

2882
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:16,480
in uaps because of the

2883
01:41:20,550 --> 01:41:18,480
raw intelligence that they see being

2884
01:41:22,149 --> 01:41:20,560
transmitted through our facilities

2885
01:41:24,709 --> 01:41:22,159
because we share i mean there is

2886
01:41:26,149 --> 01:41:24,719
non-foreign intelligence no foreigner

2887
01:41:27,910 --> 01:41:26,159
intelligence that the united states

2888
01:41:31,510 --> 01:41:27,920
doesn't share with australia

2889
01:41:34,709 --> 01:41:31,520
or no foreign but

2890
01:41:36,229 --> 01:41:34,719
we are plugged into the western alliance

2891
01:41:37,990 --> 01:41:36,239
in a way that i think most australians

2892
01:41:39,350 --> 01:41:38,000
don't realize you know we literally get

2893
01:41:41,669 --> 01:41:39,360
to see the flow of raw

2894
01:41:43,109 --> 01:41:41,679
intelligence which pours into the nsa

2895
01:41:44,709 --> 01:41:43,119
the cia

2896
01:41:47,030 --> 01:41:44,719
very little of it is restricted from

2897
01:41:48,550 --> 01:41:47,040
australian eyes and

2898
01:41:50,550 --> 01:41:48,560
i've spoken to people who've told me

2899
01:41:52,149 --> 01:41:50,560
that they're aware that there are

2900
01:41:54,149 --> 01:41:52,159
sightings reports which are sent

2901
01:41:58,149 --> 01:41:54,159
routinely to space command

2902
01:42:00,149 --> 01:41:58,159
norad nsa cia you know it's discussed

2903
01:42:01,990 --> 01:42:00,159
and it's it was interesting to them

2904
01:42:03,830 --> 01:42:02,000
because they were fascinated by the fact

2905
01:42:04,790 --> 01:42:03,840
that our defense department in australia

2906
01:42:06,790 --> 01:42:04,800
doesn't

2907
01:42:08,390 --> 01:42:06,800
take an interest in this stuff and when

2908
01:42:09,350 --> 01:42:08,400
they do they generally just flick it on

2909
01:42:10,550 --> 01:42:09,360
to the americans

2910
01:42:12,550 --> 01:42:10,560
give it to the yanks that's what they

2911
01:42:15,910 --> 01:42:12,560
say

2912
01:42:17,669 --> 01:42:15,920
that sounds about right yeah well

2913
01:42:19,510 --> 01:42:17,679
ross i don't want to take up any more of

2914
01:42:20,870 --> 01:42:19,520
your time brother this you've been very

2915
01:42:22,870 --> 01:42:20,880
gracious with uh

2916
01:42:24,470 --> 01:42:22,880
answering everything but of course

2917
01:42:25,270 --> 01:42:24,480
wrapping things up i have to ask you

2918
01:42:27,910 --> 01:42:25,280
know when

2919
01:42:30,390 --> 01:42:27,920
will the book be available um a lot of

2920
01:42:32,950 --> 01:42:30,400
my united states listeners i know are

2921
01:42:34,790 --> 01:42:32,960
really anxious about that and uh yeah

2922
01:42:36,629 --> 01:42:34,800
any updates on if the uh the doc is

2923
01:42:38,390 --> 01:42:36,639
gonna make it over here

2924
01:42:40,310 --> 01:42:38,400
sure uh okay let's deal with the book

2925
01:42:43,590 --> 01:42:40,320
first the book is being released

2926
01:42:46,950 --> 01:42:43,600
in australia by harpercollins the big

2927
01:42:50,070 --> 01:42:46,960
international publisher uh in two weeks

2928
01:42:51,910 --> 01:42:50,080
the end of july i'm

2929
01:42:54,390 --> 01:42:51,920
only in the last two weeks have i been

2930
01:42:56,709 --> 01:42:54,400
assured by harpercollins us

2931
01:42:59,430 --> 01:42:56,719
that it will be published in a print

2932
01:43:03,189 --> 01:42:59,440
form in canada and the us

2933
01:43:05,109 --> 01:43:03,199
sometime in august or september but they

2934
01:43:06,790 --> 01:43:05,119
publishing my friend is feudal serfdom

2935
01:43:09,030 --> 01:43:06,800
it's another form of um

2936
01:43:10,550 --> 01:43:09,040
you know penal servitude basically and

2937
01:43:11,590 --> 01:43:10,560
we're all convicts in australia and

2938
01:43:13,189 --> 01:43:11,600
basically uh

2939
01:43:15,669 --> 01:43:13,199
writing books as a form of penal

2940
01:43:17,030 --> 01:43:15,679
servitude you only get told by by your

2941
01:43:18,470 --> 01:43:17,040
publisher when a book is going to be

2942
01:43:21,270 --> 01:43:18,480
published when they condescend

2943
01:43:23,270 --> 01:43:21,280
to tell you so um i'm told that

2944
01:43:25,270 --> 01:43:23,280
harpercollins us is anticipating

2945
01:43:28,070 --> 01:43:25,280
publication of a print form of the book

2946
01:43:29,990 --> 01:43:28,080
sometime in the next few weeks but i i

2947
01:43:31,990 --> 01:43:30,000
have no idea when

2948
01:43:33,669 --> 01:43:32,000
and i've been begging them to at least

2949
01:43:34,870 --> 01:43:33,679
allow me to put up something on my

2950
01:43:42,390 --> 01:43:34,880
website

2951
01:43:44,109 --> 01:43:42,400
plain sight hyphen book dot com

2952
01:43:46,550 --> 01:43:44,119
and uh you can just find that at

2953
01:43:49,590 --> 01:43:46,560
rosskultar.com

2954
01:43:51,109 --> 01:43:49,600
and it will basically tell you when the

2955
01:43:52,629 --> 01:43:51,119
book is being published but it's being

2956
01:43:55,669 --> 01:43:52,639
published in the uk

2957
01:43:58,310 --> 01:43:55,679
canada us europe

2958
01:43:58,870 --> 01:43:58,320
as well as in australia so that's the

2959
01:44:02,709 --> 01:43:58,880
book

2960
01:44:05,669 --> 01:44:02,719
um i'm also hoping

2961
01:44:06,950 --> 01:44:05,679
uh to work with the tv station channel 7

2962
01:44:08,790 --> 01:44:06,960
spotlight

2963
01:44:10,709 --> 01:44:08,800
on a longer form version of the

2964
01:44:13,350 --> 01:44:10,719
documentary that we made for

2965
01:44:14,629 --> 01:44:13,360
australian viewing i've been highly

2966
01:44:17,430 --> 01:44:14,639
amused at this bootleg

2967
01:44:19,350 --> 01:44:17,440
versions of my documentary floating all

2968
01:44:21,830 --> 01:44:19,360
the way around the world

2969
01:44:23,510 --> 01:44:21,840
but channel seven owned the copyright to

2970
01:44:25,030 --> 01:44:23,520
that or at least i've got some share in

2971
01:44:27,430 --> 01:44:25,040
it but basically they dictate

2972
01:44:30,149 --> 01:44:27,440
when it will be released internationally

2973
01:44:33,030 --> 01:44:30,159
and one of the problems we have is that

2974
01:44:35,109 --> 01:44:33,040
unbelievably the both myself and the

2975
01:44:36,950 --> 01:44:35,119
editors of the uh

2976
01:44:38,709 --> 01:44:36,960
the program that we're cutting have been

2977
01:44:39,830 --> 01:44:38,719
locked out of the tv station because

2978
01:44:42,149 --> 01:44:39,840
we're in a

2979
01:44:43,189 --> 01:44:42,159
major pandemic alert in australia at the

2980
01:44:45,430 --> 01:44:43,199
moment where

2981
01:44:46,310 --> 01:44:45,440
we're not allowed to leave our homes we

2982
01:44:49,830 --> 01:44:46,320
are literally

2983
01:44:50,790 --> 01:44:49,840
in lockdown and there's no travel to

2984
01:44:53,990 --> 01:44:50,800
work

2985
01:44:56,070 --> 01:44:54,000
only

2986
01:44:57,030 --> 01:44:56,080
and we are all literally confined to

2987
01:44:58,870 --> 01:44:57,040
barracks

2988
01:45:00,790 --> 01:44:58,880
so i'm not in a position to be able to

2989
01:45:02,070 --> 01:45:00,800
cut the bloody documentary until i can

2990
01:45:03,910 --> 01:45:02,080
get back to channel 7

2991
01:45:06,629 --> 01:45:03,920
and nag the editors into finishing it

2992
01:45:08,470 --> 01:45:06,639
and but i can assure you that as quickly

2993
01:45:09,750 --> 01:45:08,480
as i can we will be distributing for

2994
01:45:11,669 --> 01:45:09,760
international release

2995
01:45:13,830 --> 01:45:11,679
a version of the documentary with

2996
01:45:15,590 --> 01:45:13,840
extended material that didn't go into

2997
01:45:18,229 --> 01:45:15,600
the original film

2998
01:45:20,229 --> 01:45:18,239
and i spent a lot of time uh filming

2999
01:45:21,750 --> 01:45:20,239
with lou elizondo and chris mellon

3000
01:45:22,390 --> 01:45:21,760
they're very interesting people who

3001
01:45:24,470 --> 01:45:22,400
should be

3002
01:45:26,470 --> 01:45:24,480
taken seriously very very seriously and

3003
01:45:29,189 --> 01:45:26,480
i don't doubt for one moment their

3004
01:45:32,070 --> 01:45:29,199
motivations they're entirely honorable

3005
01:45:33,990 --> 01:45:32,080
um but there's other information that we

3006
01:45:36,070 --> 01:45:34,000
dug up in our time in the us that i

3007
01:45:38,870 --> 01:45:36,080
think is deserving of worthier

3008
01:45:40,950 --> 01:45:38,880
fuller exposition and that will be

3009
01:45:43,590 --> 01:45:40,960
incorporated at some stage into

3010
01:45:44,470 --> 01:45:43,600
a fuller version of my documentary the

3011
01:45:47,189 --> 01:45:44,480
ufo

3012
01:45:47,830 --> 01:45:47,199
phenomenon sometime later this year but

3013
01:45:49,830 --> 01:45:47,840
um

3014
01:45:51,990 --> 01:45:49,840
again because i'm just a feudal surf in

3015
01:45:52,950 --> 01:45:52,000
the media world it basically is the

3016
01:45:55,109 --> 01:45:52,960
result of

3017
01:45:57,510 --> 01:45:55,119
whether or not the masters who funded

3018
01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:57,520
that film which cost them a bomb to make

3019
01:46:00,229 --> 01:45:58,000
uh

3020
01:46:01,750 --> 01:46:00,239
and deservedly so because it gave them

3021
01:46:02,550 --> 01:46:01,760
great ratings and a great audience

3022
01:46:05,189 --> 01:46:02,560
response but

3023
01:46:07,270 --> 01:46:05,199
um it's really up to them as to when and

3024
01:46:08,709 --> 01:46:07,280
if they will fund a longer version which

3025
01:46:11,669 --> 01:46:08,719
i hope they will

3026
01:46:13,430 --> 01:46:11,679
i hope so too we will you know us us

3027
01:46:14,310 --> 01:46:13,440
here in the united states are good at

3028
01:46:16,709 --> 01:46:14,320
making uh

3029
01:46:18,149 --> 01:46:16,719
making those things happen so ross i

3030
01:46:20,229 --> 01:46:18,159
have to thank you for

3031
01:46:21,390 --> 01:46:20,239
all the the work you've done on this

3032
01:46:23,270 --> 01:46:21,400
topic and

3033
01:46:24,790 --> 01:46:23,280
legitimizing everything we've been

3034
01:46:27,910 --> 01:46:24,800
trying to do for

3035
01:46:29,830 --> 01:46:27,920
god 70 plus years now and um

3036
01:46:31,750 --> 01:46:29,840
for everything you've done it's it's

3037
01:46:34,870 --> 01:46:31,760
only added to i think this

3038
01:46:36,229 --> 01:46:34,880
this tapestry of uh credible information

3039
01:46:39,270 --> 01:46:36,239
on a topic that

3040
01:46:41,189 --> 01:46:39,280
has been incredible for so long so

3041
01:46:42,709 --> 01:46:41,199
i truly have to thank you for for that

3042
01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:42,719
and for coming on somewhere in the skies

3043
01:46:45,109 --> 01:46:43,760
today

3044
01:46:47,270 --> 01:46:45,119
thank you to you and your listeners for

3045
01:46:49,910 --> 01:46:47,280
the opportunity to talk about it and uh

3046
01:46:50,470 --> 01:46:49,920
uh i i love everybody if they want to

3047
01:46:54,760 --> 01:46:50,480
read more

3048
01:47:30,300 --> 01:46:54,770
read my book in plain sight